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  • Religious and Liberal

    3 6.98%
  • Nonreligious and Liberal

    7 16.28%
  • Religious and Conservative

    8 18.60%
  • Nonreligious and Conservative

    5 11.63%
  • Religious and Independent

    5 11.63%
  • Nonreligious and Indepedent

    10 23.26%
  • Other

    5 11.63%
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Thread: Religion in Politics

  1. #31
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    Really? You're going to give credit for the civil rights movement to religion? There are lots of religious people out there, how can you tie the fact that he was a reverend to all of his noble works?
    Credit is well-deserved to religion in the cause of civil rights. Although religion had a hand in justifying slavery, it was immensely difficult for practitioners of the faith, who owned Plantations, to continuously desire that these slaves have a Christian upbringing. The message of the Christian heritage was also antithetical to American slavery's belief that this slave was less than human or a human but of lesser stock. Sometimes slave owners would want that heritage, but other times, they saw it as subversive to their power. It became a powerful rallying cry for many African Americans, and was in all actuality, one of the strongest forces in abolitionism in this country (and among, if, not the first).

    It continued to grow and it is immensely hard to deny that. Secular forces were at work (the Declaration of Independence), but ideas matter in religion as well (perhaps more so).
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-14-11 at 09:15 PM.
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  2. #32
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    I Am a Christian and I make no bones about it, but I consider myself to be more spiritual than religious. I don't hesitate to let people know how I feel on religious topics.

  3. #33
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    I have a problem when one person's religious belief is codified into a law that affects everyone else's life.

    On the surface I have no problem with people using their religious belief to vote people of the same belief into office. However, if we accept the premise that my statement is okay, then we must accept that it's also okay for people using their race to vote people of the same race into office, and people of different religions using those different religions to vote "their own" into office. Is it any wonder, then, that the most qualified people are not in government? Rather, we see a conglomeration of people voted into office because of their race or their religion, and a mandate from their constituents to pass laws that benefit the race and religious belief that voted for them in the first place.

    I rather doubt the founding fathers had that in mind, but I'm sure that everyone on this board can justify why their own personal beliefs are exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. There is no separation of church and state in this country. The church IS the state, because people will make certain that their religious views are firmly entrenched at every step of our governmental process, right down to the Christian prayers opening every session of congress. There is freedom of religion in the USA; however, there is no freedom from religion. And that's sad.

  4. #34
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Viktyr Korimir View Post
    I am deeply religious, and my religious beliefs do inform my political stance. It couldn't be otherwise; how can I divorce my sense of what is right and wrong from my sense of what my country needs?
    It depends on what you mean by that. Certainly there are certain common morals and such throughout a society that can be adhered to. However, if you start talking about enforcing your particular flavor of religious doctrine through law and at the expense of the rights and liberties of others, then you are in the wrong.
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  5. #35
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I have a problem when one person's religious belief is codified into a law that affects everyone else's life.

    On the surface I have no problem with people using their religious belief to vote people of the same belief into office. However, if we accept the premise that my statement is okay, then we must accept that it's also okay for people using their race to vote people of the same race into office, and people of different religions using those different religions to vote "their own" into office. Is it any wonder, then, that the most qualified people are not in government? Rather, we see a conglomeration of people voted into office because of their race or their religion, and a mandate from their constituents to pass laws that benefit the race and religious belief that voted for them in the first place.

    I rather doubt the founding fathers had that in mind, but I'm sure that everyone on this board can justify why their own personal beliefs are exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. There is no separation of church and state in this country. The church IS the state, because people will make certain that their religious views are firmly entrenched at every step of our governmental process, right down to the Christian prayers opening every session of congress. There is freedom of religion in the USA; however, there is no freedom from religion. And that's sad.

    Wow, mega overstatement. I'm tempted to state that more emphatically, but I'm trying to be polite.

    From the way our politicians act, as well as a legislation they pass, I doubt 25% are genine, authentic Christians. That may be too generous.

    You're describing a alleged Christian theocracy. There is no such theocracy in the USA. If there were things would be very very different.

    It is one thing to acknowlege that the religious beliefs of the large majority have some effect on legislation. It is another thing to assert that the Church IS the State.... that is simply hyperbole.

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  6. #36
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    I'm more spiritual than religious, but I don't think I have the right to tell people with different believes what to do, or how to live.

    Other people may disagree with my morals, and it's not my right to restrict their freedom, as long as they don't harm others. That's freedom of religion -- nobody has the right to ban my religious views, but by the same token, I have no right to legislate my morals on people who don't share them. A multi-religious society can only work that way. Morals concerning actions that don't harm others should not be legislated.
    "Not learning from mistakes is worse than committing mistakes. When you don't allow yourself to make mistakes, it is hard to be tolerant of others and it does not allow even God to be merciful."

  7. #37
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Wow, mega overstatement. I'm tempted to state that more emphatically, but I'm trying to be polite.

    From the way our politicians act, as well as a legislation they pass, I doubt 25% are genine, authentic Christians. That may be too generous.

    You're describing a alleged Christian theocracy. There is no such theocracy in the USA. If there were things would be very very different.

    It is one thing to acknowlege that the religious beliefs of the large majority have some effect on legislation. It is another thing to assert that the Church IS the State.... that is simply hyperbole.
    Of course it's hyperbole. However, the fact remains that a legislator's religious belief is a major factor determining why people vote for him/her. People want to see legislators who mirror their own religious values in the government. Once in government, legislators are in a position to impose religious dogma through legislative means... and many have done so. When this occurs, the beliefs of a majority religion intrinsically colors the legislative process. When every session of congress opens with a Christian prayer, then I believe that I am correct in my presumption that said religion is being recognized by the governmental process in a way that I disapprove of. My government is asking a specific religion's diety to "guide" them. When I sit in a church and the preacher tells me that if I do not vote for candidate A over candidate B then I will go to hell, the church is most assuredly pressing itself into the governmental process. When candidates who are non-religious have no chance of being elected to state or national public office, then the church is again is shown to be the crux of who is and is not allowed governmental power.

    Therefore, the statement that the church IS the government, hyperbole though it may be, is not necessarily incorrect.

    As for who is an "authentic Christian" and who is not, that's not for me to say. That would be between them and whatever God they believe in. I strongly... strongly... support the freedom of all Americans to worship as they please. However, given the clashes between religious groups lately, including the Christian-led anti-mosque silliness of the past years and the histrionic reaction of so many to anyone who does not believe at all, I'm thinking a hell of a lot of Americans are pretty selective about who is and is not allowed such freedoms.

    This is one reason I stay away from religious forums. I see no need to intrude upon people's discussion of their own beliefs. Also, I note the reaction to those who do not share them. When a viewpoint you could not agree with mixed religion and government you, according to your own words, had difficulty even being polite to me although we have gotten along quite well in the past and agreed with each other frequently! People do not like their religions to be challenged. I do not challenge them. I simply do not like them being a cornerstone of the government, and those who run it.
    Last edited by DiAnna; 06-14-11 at 11:57 PM.

  8. #38
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Questionable Christian who is a Democratic Socialist.


  9. #39
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Credit is well-deserved to religion in the cause of civil rights. Although religion had a hand in justifying slavery, it was immensely difficult for practitioners of the faith, who owned Plantations, to continuously desire that these slaves have a Christian upbringing. The message of the Christian heritage was also antithetical to American slavery's belief that this slave was less than human or a human but of lesser stock. Sometimes slave owners would want that heritage, but other times, they saw it as subversive to their power. It became a powerful rallying cry for many African Americans, and was in all actuality, one of the strongest forces in abolitionism in this country (and among, if, not the first).

    It continued to grow and it is immensely hard to deny that. Secular forces were at work (the Declaration of Independence), but ideas matter in religion as well (perhaps more so).
    People can have morals without being religious. How is it possible that when someone has slaves and is religious there is no connection, but if they decide slavery is evil it was religion showing them the light. If anything, history has shown that civilizations themselves become more ethical and then religion catches up with its tail between its legs.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    I have a problem when one person's religious belief is codified into a law that affects everyone else's life.

    On the surface I have no problem with people using their religious belief to vote people of the same belief into office. However, if we accept the premise that my statement is okay, then we must accept that it's also okay for people using their race to vote people of the same race into office, and people of different religions using those different religions to vote "their own" into office. Is it any wonder, then, that the most qualified people are not in government? Rather, we see a conglomeration of people voted into office because of their race or their religion, and a mandate from their constituents to pass laws that benefit the race and religious belief that voted for them in the first place.

    I rather doubt the founding fathers had that in mind, but I'm sure that everyone on this board can justify why their own personal beliefs are exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. There is no separation of church and state in this country. The church IS the state, because people will make certain that their religious views are firmly entrenched at every step of our governmental process, right down to the Christian prayers opening every session of congress. There is freedom of religion in the USA; however, there is no freedom from religion. And that's sad.
    I agree. Voting blocs in general are not helpful to society - though I still think the religious voting bloc is the most dangerous and the most illogical of the group. These people are well funded and they base their ideals off of a book written thousands of years ago (that is filled with gospels written by men about a man that they never met).

    And I also agree that there is hardly any separation of church and state currently. If you are not Christian, it is nearly impossible to get elected to any prestigious government job. You will not see a Muslim (or even an agnostic) being appointed to the Supreme Court or elected president any time soon.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

  10. #40
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by ADG View Post
    For a Republican, belief in Jesus as your Lord and Saviour is a prerequisite in most cases. I believe Ron Paul breaks this mold, but him aside, most Republicans know that to appeal to the conservative base you must believe in a Christian God. And while you may not believe that religion and politics should be combined, many Republicans do not share this belief. To many, the USA is a Christian nation, founded on Christian ideals by Good Christian men.

    So is this an issue? You betcha, and it is why we have more than one party!
    Hardly, but then again, some people think the neo-conservatives actually represent conservative thought. They do not. They are the religious arm of fiscal liberalism.
    There is nothing demonstrably true that religion can provide the world that cannot be achieved more rationally through entirely secular means.

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