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  • Religious and Liberal

    3 6.98%
  • Nonreligious and Liberal

    7 16.28%
  • Religious and Conservative

    8 18.60%
  • Nonreligious and Conservative

    5 11.63%
  • Religious and Independent

    5 11.63%
  • Nonreligious and Indepedent

    10 23.26%
  • Other

    5 11.63%
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Thread: Religion in Politics

  1. #11
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Had you used the word "spiritual", I could have voted.

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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by BDBoop View Post
    Had you used the word "spiritual", I could have voted.
    True but spirituality is completely different. No one hates others based off of spirituality.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Religion in Politics

    I believe in a Christian God, but I consider myself more spiritual than religious. As much as I detest "he who shall not be named" and all the little ignorant fifteen-year-olds who violently masturbate to his posters, he wasn't half right when he said religion is an "opiate of the masses". People need to believe that or...oh, who knows. They're afraid to try to not believe it.

    Having said that, I don't mind if we have a religious president, just as long as he doesn't write Scripture into the Constitution.

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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    I do not believe religion and politics have any business being mixed, yet during political debates (especially within the GOP), it seems that questions concerning religious faith (Christianity) are constantly brought up. What does the belief in Jesus, Muhammad, Zeus, Dionysus, Osiris, or any other theological being have to do with politics?
    For the same reason being "black" matters in politics, or being a "woman", or "being white", or "being old", or "being an outsider", or being "any other grouping".

    People in general feel they have a better ability to connect with someone that shares similarities with them, and believe that people who have similar views or issues as them will keep them in mind. This is the reason often we are, correctly, given as one of the factors as to why blacks overwhelmingly tend to vote in favor of black candidates...an immediete assumption that they "understand" the issues and views of the voter in question.

    Likewise, people are typically leary of things they don't know or understand or are foreign to them. They have less things they can use to easily and quickly identify with the person.

    Now, you COULD say "Identity Politics" is a problem...but yet, you choose to focus ONLY on religion. The broader argument I think may have some merit, but religion alone isn't problematic. Sure, not every Christian is the same. Nor is every woman, every black, every old person, or even every Democrat and Republican. But they provide a basic foundation for the average person to learn a few bits of information on the person and begin to get a generalized view of what they think the person is.

    Is there an issue when such a large part of the voting block is devoutly religious and votes based off of their beliefs?
    Absolutely not. EVERYONE votes off their beliefs...EVERYONE. Be it a belief that science should rule everything, a belief that emotion should rule, a belief in god, a belief in logic, a belief in socratic philosophy, or Hobbesian philosophy, or Machiavellian philosophy. Everyone votes based off their belief system, and I don't think religious people are somehow worse or religion is somehow more of an "issue" than any other kind.

    Just because you don't like that method of developing a belief structure doesn't mean its wrong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ADG View Post
    I believe Ron Paul breaks this mold, but him aside, most Republicans know that to appeal to the conservative base you must believe in a Christian God.
    Are you suggesting yo ubelieve Ron paul is an athiest or some other religion other than Christian?

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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely not. EVERYONE votes off their beliefs...EVERYONE. Be it a belief that science should rule everything, a belief that emotion should rule, a belief in god, a belief in logic, a belief in socratic philosophy, or Hobbesian philosophy, or Machiavellian philosophy. Everyone votes based off their belief system, and I don't think religious people are somehow worse or religion is somehow more of an "issue" than any other kind.

    Just because you don't like that method of developing a belief structure doesn't mean its wrong.

    That, and exactly that. Thank you. QFT.

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  6. #16
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    For the same reason being "black" matters in politics, or being a "woman", or "being white", or "being old", or "being an outsider", or being "any other grouping".
    How can you compare the belief in a bearded guy in the sky to being black or old?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    People in general feel they have a better ability to connect with someone that shares similarities with them, and believe that people who have similar views or issues as them will keep them in mind. This is the reason often we are, correctly, given as one of the factors as to why blacks overwhelmingly tend to vote in favor of black candidates...an immediete assumption that they "understand" the issues and views of the voter in question.
    So if there was a giant voting bloc of people who voted to raise taxes because Zeus thought taxes should be at 80% or above, you wouldn't find those people to be disturbing? You are comparing cultural relations to poor logic?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Now, you COULD say "Identity Politics" is a problem...but yet, you choose to focus ONLY on religion. The broader argument I think may have some merit, but religion alone isn't problematic. Sure, not every Christian is the same. Nor is every woman, every black, every old person, or even every Democrat and Republican. But they provide a basic foundation for the average person to learn a few bits of information on the person and begin to get a generalized view of what they think the person is.
    Agreeably, both require lack of logic, but I am not sure why you think that one needs to be brought up with the other. One is a sociological issue and the other is the ardent belief of an old fable and making life decisions based off of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Absolutely not. EVERYONE votes off their beliefs...EVERYONE. Be it a belief that science should rule everything, a belief that emotion should rule, a belief in god, a belief in logic, a belief in socratic philosophy, or Hobbesian philosophy, or Machiavellian philosophy. Everyone votes based off their belief system, and I don't think religious people are somehow worse or religion is somehow more of an "issue" than any other kind.
    Did you really compare believing in science to belief in Christianity? No, they are not comparable. One takes empirical evidence, requires sound logic, and encourages as many questions as possible; and the other is really quite the opposite: it cannot have any empirical evidence, it uses little to no logic, and questioning it is frowned upon.

    So it is your opinion that voting for a candidate who believes in evolution, saving the environment, and energy conservation is the similar to voting someone who believes in creation, gays being abominations, and destroying Islam?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Just because you don't like that method of developing a belief structure doesn't mean its wrong.
    Well, when the Flying Spaghetti monster is taught to your children in schools you might disagree with that statement.
    Ted Cruz is the dumbest person alive.

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    Re: Religion in Politics

    I believe my religion to be true, so obviously because it is truth to me I allow it to influence my morals and politics. It's part of my beliefs, it's part of what I believe to be true. I think it would be foolish for me to believe in the truth of my faith and ignore it when it comes to political beliefs and other decisions in life.
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  8. #18
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by whysoserious View Post
    How can you compare the belief in a bearded guy in the sky to being black or old?
    Because both encompass a group identity. I could compare people who play video games to people who are black too. I could compare people who are Basketball fans to people who believe in a Breaded guy in the sky. I can compare individuals from California with Old people. I know you desperately want to prove me wrong by attempting to be as offensive as possible in belittling christians, hoping that I'll run off on some raving tangent rather than point out your obvious flaw. Sorry, not going to work, as I'm not really the religious sort.

    Groups of people that share some sort of commanality...be it race, religion, interest, gender, age, etc...identify easier on average with other people who share that commanality, no matter how much you wish to degrade said common factor.

    So if there was a giant voting bloc of people who voted to raise taxes because Zeus thought taxes should be at 80% or above, you wouldn't find those people to be disturbing? You are comparing cultural relations to poor logic?
    No more than I'd find 80% or above believing we need to raise taxes because the Rich aren't "paying their fair share" or because the rich are "the Man" who need to be shown a lesso nor because "The Rich can afford it based on my own views of how much money they really need" or because Marxian philosophy says so or because they reasoned that such was the correct answer through using the socratic method.

    No, if 80% or above generally felt that way, I'd not be greatly troubled by the notion of WHY they chose it. I may be troubled by WHAT they choose, but not the why.

    Agreeably, both require lack of logic, but I am not sure why you think that one needs to be brought up with the other. One is a sociological issue and the other is the ardent belief of an old fable and making life decisions based off of it.
    You were asking two questions...why people have a sort of litmus test for someone they vote for beign political, and someone voting based on their religious beleifs. In regards to the first one, my answer is that its due to identity politics and thus they absolutely are related.

    Did you really compare believing in science to belief in Christianity? No, they are not comparable. One takes empirical evidence, requires sound logic, and encourages as many questions as possible; and the other is really quite the opposite: it cannot have any empirical evidence, it uses little to no logic, and questioning it is frowned upon.
    Yes, I did. A persons belief regarding the law are based on their own personal beliefs of what is important to them, what their morals are, and what their views of the world are. People can gain those things from a variety of sources from society, to religion, to science, to philosophers, and on. Unlike those who are so egotistical as to belittle those that dare to think differently then them, I don't feel that people should be insulted or our constitution shat upon simply because someones views are formed differently than my own.

    So it is your opinion that voting for a candidate who believes in evolution, saving the environment, and energy conservation is the similar to voting someone who believes in creation, gays being abominations, and destroying Islam?
    Absolutely, in quite a number of ways. In both cases you're voting for a candidate. If the individual voting believes those things, then both people are voting based on their individual beliefs. If the individual voting doens't know the individuals points but simply knows they're not very religious / very religious and votes based on that factor, then they're similar. I'd even say similar to someone who votes for someone who believes we to significantly alter our living conditions in the name of being green, suggests that kids should be taught Gods don't exist and religion is illogical in school, and believe it should be illegal to vote based on your religious views. Voting for that individual could be similar in reasons as well.

    Well, when the Flying Spaghetti monster is taught to your children in schools you might disagree with that statement.
    All hail the FSM.

    No, not really. See, your big scarey boogey man slipper slope doesn't scare me, nor sway me, nor change my position. Should we get to a point that the majority in this country are athiests and they vote based purely on their athiest views and put forward laws and policies that are hazardous or uncomfortable for those of faith...but are constitutional...I'll have no issue with that from the stand point of where they get their belief from. I may have significant issues with the laws or actions they push...much as I have significant issues with many of those things pushed by staunch Christians...but not with WHY they push it.

    Unlike you, I don't like my prejudice and bigotry towards various groups override my beleif in the constitution and reasonable application of fairness across the board.

  9. #19
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Religion is presented as a way of life, not a supplement to life. Religion is designed to answer for and provide for all scenarios, all aspects of life. One who practices within any faith is not one who can remove the tennants of their faith from what they feel is right, or best. I had a discussion recently and came to a conclusion. Many people of faith understand certain things to be right or wrong based on God's will for his people. When a situation arises in which another person is doing "wrong", Christian ideals are conflicting. God condemns suck action, but Jesus teaches us to be tolerant, to pray for those who would do "wrong". So a religious person must decide whether to tolerate and allow God to judge, or adhere to God's condemnation and likewise condemn the action. One course of action will limit salvation, but which course will do so is in question. Thus, a religious person makes the best decision they can. Whether the rest of us agree with it doesn't mean that the Christian takes it lightly, or doesn't care, or wants to force a belief.

    Ideally, if a conflict comes up, a religious person would be able to follow the path of tolerance, except in a situation of obvious negative result (i.e. the majority wants all murders to receive puppies..silly, but you get the point, I hope). In doing so, they would be justified in asking forgiveness from God for not condemning the action or issue at hand. I don't envy their conflict, but I also can't condemn them for it.
    This is really well stated, Tess. To add just a bit to this, I'd also point out that, even among those who may be acting on the same faith, folks will often come to different conclusions. There is enough room in Christian doctrine (since that's what I'm most familiar with) for disagreement about who or which political POV better reflects Christian values.

    @ WhySoSerious, it is a mistake to assume that all Christians (or any group) think the same way. Using Digsbe as an example, I think his religious beliefs and mine are similar and yet we are not in agreement on many things.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Religion in Politics

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    This is really well stated, Tess. To add just a bit to this, I'd also point out that, even among those who may be acting on the same faith, folks will often come to different conclusions. There is enough room in Christian doctrine (since that's what I'm most familiar with) for disagreement about who or which political POV better reflects Christian values.

    @ WhySoSerious, it is a mistake to assume that all Christians (or any group) think the same way. Using Digsbe as an example, I think his religious beliefs and mine are similar and yet we are not in agreement on many things.
    Yeah, this really cool guy helped me with that understanding.
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