I want to see the President fail

lewstherin said:

wrong. wanting obama to fail means wanting the country to succeed.

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How does wanting a President to fail support success? That makes no sense. If he succeeds the nation wins. If you don't like him vote against him but wishing failure on a President is hoping the nation fails. That is a dumb position to take.

lewstherin said:

obviously...it's an open border policy. the states are legislating what is no more than the already established federal law, and his admin is suing these states
for enforcing federal law. obviously....he doesn't agree with the federal immigration laws, or the states wouldn't feel the need to force the issue at state level.

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Is this to say that Bush had closed borders?

BDBoop said:

When one actually makes the effort? It's really not all that difficult.

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perhaps for you. but as an ideologue (one who emphasizes the importance of ideology - of intellectual structure), it's hard not to emphasize that there is one set of assumptions that consistently produces semi-accurate predictions and another set of assumptions that consistently produces exceedingly inaccurate predictions.

katiegrrl0 said:

How does wanting a President to fail support success? That makes no sense. If he succeeds the nation wins. If you don't like him vote against him but wishing failure on a President is hoping the nation fails. That is a dumb position to take.

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if the President wants to detonate nuclear bombs over every major city in America in the hopes that the radiation will give us all super powers - do you hope that he fails, or succeeds in his effort to fire those missiles?

atrasicarius said:

It doesn't quite work, considering the reason I think he's failed is because he isn't nearly socialist enough.

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then the weight of economic history is against you. socialist governments as a rule do not produce wealth, recovery, and a thriving market for their people.

BDBoop said:

So many of you do. You are in here crowing every day about how he's just been nothing but a total loser ever since he took office. He's stupid. He only got educated because of affirmative action. Every day America is in more and more trouble, and you couldn't be happier.

It's almost like you don't care that America is the cost. As long as HE fails, that's all that matters.

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It depends on what you mean by success. In other words, are you talking about success in achieving the means or the ends? For example, with healthcare, the end is getting adequate healthcare to every citizen and the means is universal healthcare. It would make sense for a Republican to want the means to fail because they don't think universal healthcare is the smartest way to get to the end. However, it would be dumb for a Republican to want the end to fail because that means they care more about getting their own way and their ego than improving the country.

I think there is a desire for failure among many from both perspectives - some people don't/didn't want him to succeed in getting the means (universal healthcare, repeal DADT, bailouts, etc) because they think/thought they would fail at achieving ends that both parties desire. This desire to fail isn't a big deal to me because many people genuinely believe his policies (his means of achieving ends) will hurt the country.

That said, I also think that a lot of people don't want him to achieve the ends either. For example, they would prefer that the economy fails rather than improve under Obama - this is the success I assume your talking about. For these people, if Obama succeeds in improving the economy, if the troops are positively or neutrally affected by the repeal of DADT and if healthcare saves lives and doesn't destroy the economy, then their hypotheses about how to help the country are proven wrong. As a result, Obama's success in reaching positive ends (in improving the country) hurt both their ego and their conservative dream for the world. It's clear how it hurts their ego and the way it hurts the conservative dream is by making liberal policies trustworthy to much of the country. If liberal policies work, then the conservative ideal United States drifts farther away.

I think this latter desire for failure is pretty apparent on this board and in other places, particularly in what seems to be a very alarmist mentality among many conservatives. From what many of them say, you would think we're still in the recession or that no new jobs have been added since Obama took office or even that we're two days away from total collapse.

Kali said:

Shame on anybody that wants our POTUS to Fail! Shame Shame Shame Do you understand wanting him to fail means you want our country and our military to fail too? Disgusting

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It doesn't mean that at all. Wanting Obama's agenda to fail because you believe the agenda is bad for the country doesn't mean you want the country and military to fail. It means you want to preserve them against his agenda. There is a distinct separation between a President's ideology, and the country's best interest and military prowess. One does not necessary encourage or support the other.

tessaesque said:

It doesn't mean that at all. Wanting Obama's agenda to fail because you believe the agenda is bad for the country doesn't mean you want the country and military to fail. It means you want to preserve them against his agenda. There is a distinct separation between a President's ideology, and the country's best interest and military prowess. One does not necessary encourage or support the other.

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What I think Kali and others are pointing to is people who want Obama to fail in doing what he believes his policies will do - help the country. I don't think they're talking about people who think his policies will hurt the country, I think they're talking about people who don't want his policies to help the country (i.e. they want his policies to fail at improving the economy, etc.).

theplaydrive said:

What I think Kali and others are pointing to is people who want Obama to fail in doing what he believes his policies will do - help the country. I don't think they're talking about people who think his policies will hurt the country, I think they're talking about people who don't want his policies to help the country (i.e. they want his policies to fail at improving the economy, etc.).

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That isn't why we want him to fail or even how we want him to fail. We want the country to succeed, but we feel his policies don't promote that outcome. If we felt that they would, we would encourage them.

I want him to succeed at turning this economy around. I want him to succeed at getting us out of this recession. I'm tired of people gloating (yes, gloating) because unemployment is still up and there are no jobs, and they lay it all at his feet and gloat.

THAT'S what this thread is about. Not picking and choosing whether or not he's 'your guy' based on what he attempts to accomplish.

I also wonder how those in the military can do this **** on a daily basis. I get freedom of speech, and I'll say it again. It's the absurd happiness and continuing potshots on a daily basis that lead me to believe that no matter how you slice it, you want Obama to fail and you are happy to see him do so and you can't wait to run your ass back here Every. Single. Time you find something that makes him look bad, so you can post it.

And if that's not how you act? Then I'm not talking to you.

atrasicarius said:

Gotta love how decent has gone from treason to the essence of patriotism now that Obama is in the white house.

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I don't think 'dissent' even has a meaning anymore. I've seen people post that. "Oh, we're not angry, poo-flinging monkeys who live in houses built on rhetoric. We just DISAGREE."

tessaesque said:

That isn't why we want him to fail or even how we want him to fail. We want the country to succeed, but we feel his policies don't promote that outcome. If we felt that they would, we would encourage them.

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Some people feel that way, sure and those people I understand. Some people, however, I believe want his policies to fail at improving the economy and otherwise help the country. These are the people who refuse to acknowledge anything positive that has happened in Obama's presidency and pretend that we're still in a recession, that new jobs haven't been added, that the auto industry didn't bounce back and that we're on the verge of a total meltdown.

Donald Lee said:

It has nothing to do with wants and desires. Barry is failing of his own accord and you realize this, you said as much in your op.

Theres never been more bile and vehemence directed towards a president as that received by president Bush. If leftists can't handle the heat, maybe they should stay out of the kitchen.

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Welcome to the board.

As to your second comment, I hate to do this before you've even hit five points, but bull****.

So, do you have any evidences supporting your position in regards to former president Bush?

Where is your past support for him, documented? Or are you just a hypocrite?

ElCid said:

FAIL, Obama. Fail, and fall hard, Dog.

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Do you live in this country? Are you prepared for another more than two years of a downward trend, while he does so and before 'your' candidate can make it any better?

BDBoop said:

I want him to succeed at turning this economy around. I want him to succeed at getting us out of this recession. I'm tired of people gloating (yes, gloating) because unemployment is still up and there are no jobs, and they lay it all at his feet and gloat.

THAT'S what this thread is about. Not picking and choosing whether or not he's 'your guy' based on what he attempts to accomplish.

I also wonder how those in the military can do this **** on a daily basis. I get freedom of speech, and I'll say it again. It's the absurd happiness and continuing potshots on a daily basis that lead me to believe that no matter how you slice it, you want Obama to fail and you are happy to see him do so and you can't wait to run your ass back here Every. Single. Time you find something that makes him look bad, so you can post it.

And if that's not how you act? Then I'm not talking to you.

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True - there are people who are pretty happy when something doesn't work as well it could or should which is ridiculous to me because when Bush was failing, I wasn't happy...at all. But I think some people just really hated all of the optimism that Obama brought in his election campaign and they want to see that happiness and optimism destroyed.

Donald Lee said:

So, do you have any evidences supporting your position in regards to former president Bush?

Where is your past support for him, documented? Or are you just a hypocrite?

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I can't prove that I voted for him both times, unless somebody can show me where they keep such records.

And I didn't start doing politics until after I voted for Obama, whatever date shows on this ID.

And you're welcome (as most people who had progressed beyond Neanderthal would have thanked me for the welcome). :2wave:

earthworm said:

Not worthy of any vote.
People who propose this totally negative question hate their own nation and its people...
"Anti-Americans" is a good name for these despicable things.

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Wow. How very "People in a box" of you.

I think Obama is driving us off a cliff. Why would I want him to succeed in that?

theplaydrive said:

Some people feel that way, sure and those people I understand. Some people, however, I believe want his policies to fail at improving the economy and otherwise help the country. These are the people who refuse to acknowledge anything positive that has happened in Obama's presidency and pretend that we're still in a recession, that new jobs haven't been added, that the auto industry didn't bounce back and that we're on the verge of a total meltdown.

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DING-DING-DING-DING-DING!! Exactly. EXACTLY.

BDBoop said:

I want him to succeed at turning this economy around. I want him to succeed at getting us out of this recession. I'm tired of people gloating (yes, gloating) because unemployment is still up and there are no jobs, and they lay it all at his feet and gloat.

THAT'S what this thread is about. Not picking and choosing whether or not he's 'your guy' based on what he attempts to accomplish.

I also wonder how those in the military can do this **** on a daily basis. I get freedom of speech, and I'll say it again. It's the absurd happiness and continuing potshots on a daily basis that lead me to believe that no matter how you slice it, you want Obama to fail and you are happy to see him do so and you can't wait to run your ass back here Every. Single. Time you find something that makes him look bad, so you can post it.

And if that's not how you act? Then I'm not talking to you.

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It is hard not to be happy when reports show that Obama's policies aren't working. I'm not happy that unemployment is still high, and that job growth is stagnating. I'm worried for friends and family who are struggling to make it. But every time these reports come out they reiterate that his methods aren't working, and hopefully it will help a few people on the fence cross over to the other side come election time. If we don't point out the failures in time with those who point out "successes" we fail to provide information that might sway the vote. We also might inform somebody who staunchly supports those methods that they aren't successful, maybe swaying them or encouraging them to challenge their beliefs. Both sides do this, and it happens with every president. It isn't always successful, but it's one method that will probably continue to be used.

Does it suck that people have to stoop to that kind of back and forth? Yeah, a little. The fact is, a good portion of the articles posted on this site are little more than opinion pieces or half-truths. Anybody can spin the news anyway they want to try making the situation more favorable to their view point, and unbiased reporting is almost dead. Everybody wants the majority to share their views, so they'll fight to show why their views are right. Some people will get "hurt" in the process. I'm not bothered by it being done to Bush, and I'm not bothered by it being done to Obama.

Wanting Obama to help America succeed and wanting Obama's policies to succeed are separate issues. Sure, I want him to turn the economy around. But I recognize that his methods aren't going to do that (as best as I can tell). Because his methodology is wrong, I can't hope for it to be successful. Because he hasn't shown signs of switching methods, I can't hope for him to be successful. Wanting him to do something and realizing that his methods will prevent him from doing so isn't an attack on him or the country, it's an acceptance of reality.

Mellie said:

I think Obama is driving us off a cliff. Why would I want him to succeed in that?

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Tell me what he's done right, where he's succeeded, and I'll entertain your question.

Oh wait. There wasn't a question.

How, specifically and exactly Miss Mellie, is he "driving us off a cliff?"

BDBoop, your problem is that you're defining "fail" as the country is in total depression, everyone's out of work and starving, etc. That's not how everyone is defining it.

BDBoop said:

I want him to succeed at turning this economy around. I want him to succeed at getting us out of this recession. I'm tired of people gloating (yes, gloating) because unemployment is still up and there are no jobs, and they lay it all at his feet and gloat.
..........

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Obama's policies have made the economy worse. Many of us said that they would from the beginning, and now we see that they have. I believe it safe to say that wanting to see a policy not implemented is to want to see the person trying to implement it fail. Or, once implemented, we want it to be ended as quickly as possible as it only makes things worse for so long as it is in effect. It is not just a single policy, but the entire bigger government, more regulation, redistribution of wealth theme of Obama and the Democrats that makes us worse.

Obama's polcies will not make the country better. We have proof everywhere now. Obama's Economic Experiment Has Failed -- Time to Get Back to What Works - FoxNews.com

I love my country. I fought for my country. I want my kids and grandkids to inherit a better country.

I want Obama to fail

mellie said:

BDBoop, your problem is that you're defining "fail" as the country is in total depression, everyone's out of work and starving, etc. That's not how everyone is defining it.

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ndeed. The President's agenda =/= America. If I thought for one minute that the President's agenda would benefit this country, obviously I would support him in it.