View Poll Results: Which poison would you pick?

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  • Communism

    1 1.79%
  • Capitalism

    28 50.00%
  • Socialism

    15 26.79%
  • Neither (Other)

    12 21.43%
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Thread: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

  1. #41
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    "Both already happens here, and we don't complain to much." - Juiposa

    If you really believe that then you're not paying attention.

    "We bitched about HST but that has gone away. We have no problem with it here in Canuckland." - Juiposa

    With respect to my questions I guess what you are trying to say is that you have no idea.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  2. #42
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    No, it's not up to me. In this little place we call reality, if I quit my job, chances are I won't be able to find another one, since there's about 4 unemployed people for every 1 job opening. Then I get kicked out of my house and starve, assuming that welfare system you hate so much isn't there. How is that different from a system where they shoot you if you don't work? Both are essentially offering you the choice of work or death.
    Wow. Text book fallacy. How can you possibly put this on DP as a counter point?

    You seem to think you are impervious to making bad decisions or at the very least your bad decisions should be offset by some sort of government program/regulation. Freedom means the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. So many people think the only price of freedom is paid for on the battle field. But everyday many people pay the price in their own lives. Whether it is the loss of a job or the loss of possessions. But just because someone may fail doesn't give us the right to take from those that do succeed. Life is full of choices, rewards and consequences. Take away the consequences, the rewards and choices loose all meaning. Take the meaning from choices and rewards and freedom is lost. Without freedom, what's the point of life? To serve a government? I'd rather live and fail than live and serve.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  3. #43
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    The hairdryers are just an analogy. What if someone wants 5 houses, 12 cars, a yacht, and a private jet? And apparently a lot of people want that. Will the computer just trust them on that one? Or will it decide they don't actually need those things? And if so, who gets to decide how much people need?
    I am so glad you went there. Sure, this is a problem, but it is mainly a problem because we are diverging from a Capitalistic Society. People that lived during this time, are taught about self-preservation, maximizing profits, continual consumption, etc.. So really, people of this age would gravitate over something that they want over what they need.

    But imagine a world where this is not taught, and other values are taught instead. Eventually, people would only ask for what they need, and they might indulge on wants every now and again but not to the determent of the community.

    But how do we address this problem during an age when even the children remember Capitalism? There are various strategies.

  4. #44
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    I am so glad you went there. Sure, this is a problem, but it is mainly a problem because we are diverging from a Capitalistic Society. People that lived during this time, are taught about self-preservation, maximizing profits, continual consumption, etc.. So really, people of this age would gravitate over something that they want over what they need.

    But imagine a world where this is not taught, and other values are taught instead. Eventually, people would only ask for what they need, and they might indulge on wants every now and again but not to the determent of the community.

    But how do we address this problem during an age when even the children remember Capitalism? There are various strategies.
    I'll give you this: At the point at which technology has advanced enough that anyone can make virtually anything they want with a snap of their fingers using nanotechnology or whatever, this type of system will be feasible. Until that point, it won't.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  5. #45
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Well, I disagree. Just because you say it is so does not mean it is.

  6. #46
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Wow. Text book fallacy. How can you possibly put this on DP as a counter point?

    You seem to think you are impervious to making bad decisions or at the very least your bad decisions should be offset by some sort of government program/regulation. Freedom means the freedom to succeed and the freedom to fail. So many people think the only price of freedom is paid for on the battle field. But everyday many people pay the price in their own lives. Whether it is the loss of a job or the loss of possessions. But just because someone may fail doesn't give us the right to take from those that do succeed. Life is full of choices, rewards and consequences. Take away the consequences, the rewards and choices loose all meaning. Take the meaning from choices and rewards and freedom is lost. Without freedom, what's the point of life? To serve a government? I'd rather live and fail than live and serve.


    You know, it's actually kind of impressive how badly you missed the point right there. If failure were purely a result of personal choices, I would agree with you. It's not, and saying otherwise is naive in the extreme. There aren't enough jobs to go around. This is a simple fact. That means that a certain percentage of people are guaranteed to fail. It means that doing something like quitting your job is inviting yourself to become part of that percentage, which means that you're effectively forced to work that job no matter how bad it is. You can't define your way out of this. It's not freedom any more than the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is a democratic people's republic.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  7. #47
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    I am so glad you went there. Sure, this is a problem, but it is mainly a problem because we are diverging from a Capitalistic Society. People that lived during this time, are taught about self-preservation, maximizing profits, continual consumption, etc.. So really, people of this age would gravitate over something that they want over what they need.

    But imagine a world where this is not taught, and other values are taught instead. Eventually, people would only ask for what they need, and they might indulge on wants every now and again but not to the determent of the community.

    But how do we address this problem during an age when even the children remember Capitalism? There are various strategies.
    The level of control you desire in this post is scary. This may be an over used term, but to totalitarian nature of this post is frightening. You seem to assume that you know what's best for everyone else and that level of arrogance may be prevalent in many but has only been prevalent in a select few in history...and none of them are viewed favorably.

    My only hope is that no one of your ilk ever reaches a position of power that is of consequence. I just can't imagine the disaster that would befall.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #48
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post


    You know, it's actually kind of impressive how badly you missed the point right there. If failure were purely a result of personal choices, I would agree with you. It's not, and saying otherwise is naive in the extreme. There aren't enough jobs to go around. This is a simple fact. That means that a certain percentage of people are guaranteed to fail. It means that doing something like quitting your job is inviting yourself to become part of that percentage, which means that you're effectively forced to work that job no matter how bad it is. You can't define your way out of this. It's not freedom any more than the Democratic People's Republic of North Korea is a democratic people's republic.
    Awww....you had a cute video...does that mean you win? You are still putting forth this fallacy that an individual is not responsible for their own choices. In your example you chose a job, decided you didn't like it and then chose to quit. Just because you don't like the choices doesn't mean you aren't better off having choices.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  9. #49
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Awww....you had a cute video...does that mean you win? You are still putting forth this fallacy that an individual is not responsible for their own choices. In your example you chose a job, decided you didn't like it and then chose to quit. Just because you don't like the choices doesn't mean you aren't better off having choices.
    Again: The "choice" being offered is work or starve. How is that different from the choice of work or be shot offered in a place like the Soviet Union?
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  10. #50
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    The level of control you desire in this post is scary. This may be an over used term, but to totalitarian nature of this post is frightening. You seem to assume that you know what's best for everyone else and that level of arrogance may be prevalent in many but has only been prevalent in a select few in history...and none of them are viewed favorably.

    My only hope is that no one of your ilk ever reaches a position of power that is of consequence. I just can't imagine the disaster that would befall.
    First don't worry, I won't be in power in a long time if at all. I am only 23.

    Second, I don't think, I know, that a system like this, or some other system besides the one we are living in, would drastically improve the life of most of the people on the planet. Sure, there would be some where their standards of living would decrease, but it is very selfish to keep the world the way it is for the minority.

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