View Poll Results: Which poison would you pick?

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  • Communism

    1 1.79%
  • Capitalism

    28 50.00%
  • Socialism

    15 26.79%
  • Neither (Other)

    12 21.43%
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Thread: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

  1. #31
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    I firmly disagree.

    The supercomputer wouldn't need to know about psychology, sociology, politics, etc.. Really, all the computer is doing in this model is tracking the world's resources, and orders for the most part. In a Resource Based Economy there is no currency. Somebody would put in their computer at home I need a hair dryer. This is sent electronically to a computer, which then packages the hair dryer and records the inventory. This data is sent to the Big Super Computer let's title it, and it records the consumption of the resources that was used for that hair dryer. That is essentially all it is doing. Sure, there are billions of people on this planet. So let's say everyone wanted something every second and put an order in on that second. That is 6 billion orders per second. Let's say it takes the processor(s) 4 instructions per order. Let me double that. 8. That is about 48 billion instructions per second. As you can see, this is very feasible because these are processor speeds for a singular computer.

    Instructions per second - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you notice, the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 (Quad Core) 49,161 MIPS at 2.66 GHz could handle that load, and this processor was made in 2006. On top of that, I'm sure we would be able to link multiple computers together and combine the resources. So really, this is very feasible.

    I am not even going to waste energy on the other point.

  2. #32
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Why do you think a super computer would not be able to micromanage a world economy?
    An economy can only be centrally and consciously managed by the people as a whole, not by a supercomputer. Yes, computers can be a good tool to use in doing so, but it is not a replacement for human beings.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  3. #33
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    I firmly disagree.

    The supercomputer wouldn't need to know about psychology, sociology, politics, etc.. Really, all the computer is doing in this model is tracking the world's resources, and orders for the most part. In a Resource Based Economy there is no currency. Somebody would put in their computer at home I need a hair dryer. This is sent electronically to a computer, which then packages the hair dryer and records the inventory. This data is sent to the Big Super Computer let's title it, and it records the consumption of the resources that was used for that hair dryer. That is essentially all it is doing. Sure, there are billions of people on this planet. So let's say everyone wanted something every second and put an order in on that second. That is 6 billion orders per second. Let's say it takes the processor(s) 4 instructions per order. Let me double that. 8. That is about 48 billion instructions per second. As you can see, this is very feasible because these are processor speeds for a singular computer.

    Instructions per second - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you notice, the Intel Core 2 Extreme QX6700 (Quad Core) 49,161 MIPS at 2.66 GHz could handle that load, and this processor was made in 2006. On top of that, I'm sure we would be able to link multiple computers together and combine the resources. So really, this is very feasible.

    I am not even going to waste energy on the other point.
    So who makes the hairdryer? Who makes the things needed to make the hairdryer? Who mines the things out of the ground? How does all that stuff get to where it needs to go? What if someone decides they want 500 hairdryers? What if the computer decides I don't actually need a hairdryer?
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  4. #34
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    One of the general philosophies of this model, and I am not too certain on this, is the goal is to automate as much as you can. So on with the questions:

    So who makes the hairdryer?

    I wouldn't be surprised there is a factory where the hair dryers are produced, and this process would be automated.

    Who makes the things needed to make the hairdryer?

    I am thinking you are trying to get to the raw materials. I'm sure the process of mining could be fully automated as well. Now, from the start is everything automated? No. But the goal is to slowly automate mundane physical labor, so the human mind can be freed and used for other purposes.

    How does all that stuff get to where it needs to go?

    They have thought this through as well. Do you remember Maglev trains? These trains run on electromagnetism. They are super quiet, and insanely fast.

    What if someone decides they want 500 hairdryers?

    Where is the incentive? There is absolutely no currency so they can't sell it.

    What if the computer decides I don't actually need a hairdryer?

    Depends on the architects who design the program. Personally, my view of this computer is to serve humanity. So, if you think you need it, the computer will send it to you.

  5. #35
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    If i recall correctly, Wake, that's actually a Lenin or Trotsky quote, and I remember Le Marteau sporting it before he got banned. Correct me if I'm wrong. I don't think Kori would ever say such a thing.
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    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  6. #36
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    If i recall correctly, Wake, that's actually a Lenin or Trotsky quote, and I remember Le Marteau sporting it before he got banned. Correct me if I'm wrong.
    It's supposedly a Trotsky quote, though I have not come across it anywhere in his writings. It's not on MIA, though they don't have all of his works up as the SWP still holds the rights to some of his work and refuse to release them to the public, choosing instead to profit off of being their exclusive producer.

    Le Marteau was a Trotskyist, if I gathered correctly, so that would make sense, though the quote is quite silly.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

  7. #37
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by atrasicarius View Post
    Really? What if I have a terrible job that I hate? What will happen if I quit it?
    That's up to you. The beauty of freedom is that you control what happens to you.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  8. #38
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    That's up to you. The beauty of freedom is that you control what happens to you.
    No, it's not up to me. In this little place we call reality, if I quit my job, chances are I won't be able to find another one, since there's about 4 unemployed people for every 1 job opening. Then I get kicked out of my house and starve, assuming that welfare system you hate so much isn't there. How is that different from a system where they shoot you if you don't work? Both are essentially offering you the choice of work or death.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  9. #39
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    A mixed economy is the best.
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  10. #40
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    One of the general philosophies of this model, and I am not too certain on this, is the goal is to automate as much as you can. So on with the questions:

    So who makes the hairdryer?

    I wouldn't be surprised there is a factory where the hair dryers are produced, and this process would be automated.

    Who makes the things needed to make the hairdryer?

    I am thinking you are trying to get to the raw materials. I'm sure the process of mining could be fully automated as well. Now, from the start is everything automated? No. But the goal is to slowly automate mundane physical labor, so the human mind can be freed and used for other purposes.

    How does all that stuff get to where it needs to go?

    They have thought this through as well. Do you remember Maglev trains? These trains run on electromagnetism. They are super quiet, and insanely fast.

    What if someone decides they want 500 hairdryers?

    Where is the incentive? There is absolutely no currency so they can't sell it.

    What if the computer decides I don't actually need a hairdryer?

    Depends on the architects who design the program. Personally, my view of this computer is to serve humanity. So, if you think you need it, the computer will send it to you.
    The hairdryers are just an analogy. What if someone wants 5 houses, 12 cars, a yacht, and a private jet? And apparently a lot of people want that. Will the computer just trust them on that one? Or will it decide they don't actually need those things? And if so, who gets to decide how much people need?
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

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