View Poll Results: Which poison would you pick?

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  • Communism

    1 1.79%
  • Capitalism

    28 50.00%
  • Socialism

    15 26.79%
  • Neither (Other)

    12 21.43%
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Thread: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

  1. #21
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    I think this is too general to give a good answer. When you say socialism, are we talking about Sweden or Cuba? When you say capitalism, are we talking about the model of most Anglophone countries, or are we talking about misanthropic Ayn Rand / TurtleDude capitalism?

    There are some aspects of capitalism that work well, and some aspects of socialism that work well. It's a myth that either the government or the private sector is better in all cases, and the "market fundamentalists" are every bit as delusional and narrow-minded as the hardcore communists are. The government generally does a better job providing human services (e.g. education, health care) and public goods (e.g. roads, police), and the private sector generally does a better job providing other consumer products (e.g. iPads, hamburgers).
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  2. #22
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    I wouldn't want either one of them. I am thoroughly interested in The Venus Project as well as the Zeitgeist Movement.

    The Venus Project
    The Zeitgeist Movement

    Resource Based Economy for the win!

  3. #23
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Regulated capitalism.
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  4. #24
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by snilloctjc View Post
    Are we talking economic systems or systems of government here?
    Capitalism, communism, and socialism are all systems of economics. All three can be paired with democracy or totalitarianism.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  5. #25
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    I wouldn't want either one of them. I am thoroughly interested in The Venus Project as well as the Zeitgeist Movement.

    The Venus Project
    The Zeitgeist Movement

    Resource Based Economy for the win!
    Meh. The Zeitgeist Movement has some interesting aspects, but it's naive and overly idealistic in the extreme. An economy is simply too complicated for a central body to micromanage it, even if that central body is a supercomputer. It's a chaotic system, which means future states are impossible to determine no matter how good your current data is. Essentially, the Zeitgeist Movement is to the left what libertarianism is to the right. It's a nice idea theoretically, but it would never work in practice.
    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  6. #26
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    No ideology is perfect, everything has its flaws but free market democratic capitalism is the best that is out there.
    Jackboots always come in matched pairs, a left boot and a right boot.

  7. #27
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Meh. The Zeitgeist Movement has some interesting aspects, but it's naive and overly idealistic in the extreme. An economy is simply too complicated for a central body to micromanage it, even if that central body is a supercomputer. It's a chaotic system, which means future states are impossible to determine no matter how good your current data is. Essentially, the Zeitgeist Movement is to the left what libertarianism is to the right. It's a nice idea theoretically, but it would never work in practice.
    Why do you think a super computer would not be able to micromanage a world economy?

    Why do you think it is a chaotic system?

    True, you probably will never be able to accurately predict future states, but it has probably nothing to do with the fact that it is a "chaotic system." It more has to do with the fact that you are trying to predict the future.

  8. #28
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    For: legalizing drugs, gay marriage, abortion, guns, universal health care, public sector jobs, nuclear power, free education, progressive taxation
    Against: corporations, make-work, the 40 hour work week, intellectual property, imperialism, "homeland security," censorship

  9. #29
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Cold Highway View Post
    No ideology is perfect, everything has its flaws but free market democratic capitalism is the best that is out there.
    Well, let us know where to look for examples of it in practice and we'll make a judgement on that.
    "The crisis will end when fear changes sides" - Pablo Iglesias Turrión

    "Austerity is used as a cover to reconfigure society and increase inequality and injustice." - Jeremy Corbyn

  10. #30
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by sookster View Post
    Why do you think a super computer would not be able to micromanage a world economy?

    Why do you think it is a chaotic system?
    Because an economy is a collection of 6 billion people conducting many transactions every day, behaving in ways that they believe benefit themselves. In order for a supercomputer to micromanage the world economy, it would need to know more about economics, psychology, sociology, politics, and business than exists in the repertoire of human knowledge.

    And even if we did have supercomputers powerful enough to do all that, they still wouldn't be able to control the world economy. Why? Because they would simply supplant humans and BECOME the world economy. And then we'd need even smarter supercomputers to micromanage THEIR transactions.
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