View Poll Results: Which poison would you pick?

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  • Communism

    1 1.79%
  • Capitalism

    28 50.00%
  • Socialism

    15 26.79%
  • Neither (Other)

    12 21.43%
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Thread: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

  1. #91
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Should resources be distributed based on need or by ability?

    That question exemplifies the fools errand that is choosing between communism and capitalism.
    Both, depending on which gains the greater advantage for whatever particular situation.

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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    It's a transformation of the entire socio-economic system, which is just a little more profound than "equal redistribution of wealth". In fact I don't think the phrase has much to do with socialism, which surpasses such an economist demand.

    In essence, socialism is doing away with artificial scarcity and raising the level of production to such a point which capitalism is unable. As the productivity of society increases, so does societal wealth. This gives the exact opposite result than "shared poverty" (whatever that means).
    The bolded bit is the nub of the issue for me. 'Artificial' because capitalism could, although inefficiently so, provide sufficient wealth to end the evils of want but, by its very nature, ensures that it doesn't in order to maintain the competition for resources that allows some to profit, others to suffer. Artificial also, because it limits the goals of endeavour and creativity to the cash nexus. What becomes prioritised is the production of goods and services that are the most profitable, not the most necessary. Thus, just one example, billions more are invested in research into cosmetic pharmaceuticals than into cures for ailments widespread in the poorer regions of the globe.
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  3. #93
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Democratic socialism would be my choice. That would essentially entail progressive tax rates, as though who control the most must pay a higher percentage. That would help ease such scenarios as that of the US, where 1% of the population controls 90% of the wealth. Also, it would include regulated capitalism.

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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    "As to Communism and Capitalism, as a quote from, if I recall, Viktyr Korimir:

    'Communism is forced equality. Capitalism is forced inequality. I've picked my poison.'"
    - Wake

    His sig is a lie.

    Capitalism doesn't force inequality on anyone. People are free to choose to be losers and failures.

    Under communism failure is forced upon everyone without choice.
    Although I agree with you about communism and I voted for capitalism I think you went a little to far in your statement about inequality. For example a teacher, professor, government employee, union worker, etc. will receive less pay than say a doctor or lawyer, even though the good they produce is equally important. What it becomes in a capitalist world (at least sometimes) is the choice between a career that you are not necessarily in love with but where you make a substantial salary and substantial benefits v. a career that you love but where the benefits and salaries are significantly less. Thus I would argue that in a communist society there is "forced success", that is the individual has no freedom to measure their own success. Whereas in a capitalist world, if you work hard, you can decide what "success" means.
    However I believe just because you don't make an outstanding salary does not make you a loser/failure. It is all dependent on your definition of success.

  5. #95
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    People forcing their ideas on other people kill people.
    No idea where you got this from.......

    That is why capitalism is the best choice. It forces nothing and leaves everything up to the individual.
    I think a system where this is no state, no class, no money, and everything is owned in communally. Sounds perfect


  6. #96
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    I think a system where this is no state, no class, no money, and everything is owned in communally. Sounds perfect
    That won't work as long as resources are scarce. There just isn't enough of everything that people want, for them to have as much as they want. If everyone shares something, then no one cares about it. It's the same reason why rental car customers almost never go to the car wash. Or why people often litter on the side of the road, but less often in their own backyard.

    Furthermore, if everything is owned communally, people want more of everything. I'd love to have a mansion, six or seven fancy sports cars, a few hundred fancy electronic gizmos, and gourmet meals for lunch and dinner every day. The only reason I don't is because those things have a price attached to them because of their scarcity.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-14-11 at 01:50 PM.
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  7. #97
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    That won't work as long as resources are scarce. There just isn't enough of everything that people want, for them to have as much as they want.
    Yes, there is. Its the previously mentioned artifical scarcity that is the essential feature of corporatist capitalism that ensures people do not get what they need. It's not about having everything you want. 'Want' is a social construct, one that the entire capitalist media and advertising industry is in business to create.
    If everyone shares something, then no one cares about it. It's the same reason why rental car customers almost never go to the car wash.
    Or because they only keep the car on average for a week? And most cars don't get very dirty in just a week. Bad example.
    Furthermore, if everything is owned communally, people want more of everything.
    Not unless they are being bombarded 24/7 by messages from people who tell them what they should want.
    I'd love to have a mansion, six or seven fancy sports cars, a few hundred fancy electronic gizmos, and gourmet meals for lunch and dinner every day. The only reason I don't is because those things have a price attached to them because of their scarcity.
    And yet, if you got all those things, do you think you would be instantly happy? If you think you would, I'd recommend spending a day attending a divorce court hearing between a couple of insanely rich people.
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  8. #98
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    Yes, there is. Its the previously mentioned artifical scarcity that is the essential feature of corporatist capitalism that ensures people do not get what they need. It's not about having everything you want. 'Want' is a social construct, one that the entire capitalist media and advertising industry is in business to create.
    So people didn't have any wants before there was a "capitalist media and advertising industry"?

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    Or because they only keep the car on average for a week? And most cars don't get very dirty in just a week. Bad example.
    If the rental car company didn't clean it, no one would EVER take it to the car wash. Another example: Why do people voluntarily take the time to clean their homes, but usually not their office buildings (unless it's their job to do so)? Because it's a shared area, and therefore somebody else's problem. This is the prevailing attitude toward ANY public property. It's also why overfishing occurs in public waters, but less so in privately-owned fishing farms.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    Not unless they are being bombarded 24/7 by messages from people who tell them what they should want.
    Wrong. People will want more if there isn't a price attached to it. This has been tried in the Soviet Union, where advertising was very limited. And yet the shelves in stores were frequently bare, because people wanted more than what was available. Markets are a good (but imperfect) mechanism for dealing with this problem in most situations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue
    And yet, if you got all those things, do you think you would be instantly happy? If you think you would, I'd recommend spending a day attending a divorce court hearing between a couple of insanely rich people.
    No. What does that have to do with anything?
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-14-11 at 03:59 PM.
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist
    I think a system where this is no state, no class, no money, and everything is owned in communally. Sounds perfect
    Feel free to join any number of African tribes and villages if you believe this to be true. Ignore the average lifespan and AIDS rates - that's just capitalist propaganda.

    People are not equal. The people who say otherwise are the ones on the losing side of average.

  10. #100
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    Re: Pick your Poison - Communism or Capitalism? (Or Socialism?)

    I'm a capitalist-communist.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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