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The Civil War

Who was right: North or South?

  • North

    Votes: 34 77.3%

  • South

    Votes: 6 13.6%

  • Neither

    Votes: 4 9.1%
  • Total voters
    44
I would have been on the North's side. The South's bravado and traditionalism got in the way of being able to see the bigger picture. When "democracy" didn't go their way their emotions led them to take pejorative actions that set them back decades economically. Both sides lost great men. Families were split and fought against each other. It baffles me how people don't see that the war was a bigger expense to the South than freeing the slaves would have been. In the end, the South lost twice.
 
apdst said:
The only thing that slavery affected--directly--during the war, was England's entry, on the side of the Confederacy.
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Well I doubt the cornerstone speach did much for confederate PR.......

Andalublue said:
Now, would anyone be interested in a thread on The Wars of the Roses, the Spanish Civil War, or the Hundred Years' War? I'd be able to contribute a lot more to those.
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Yes please :mrgreen: (the latter would certainly get an intresting contribution from El Cid)
 
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Red_Dave said:
Well I doubt the cornerstone speach probably didnt do much for confederate PR.......



Yes please...
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Done. I shall attend to it this evening. Keep your eyes peeled in the History sub-forum. Which first?
 
tlmorg02 said:
The North. Preservation of the Union was the most important factor, and slavery was nothing short of a flagrant hypocrisy in a country that claimed to offer and value liberty.
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Latin America interprets that 'offer' as a RIGHT to colonize the U.S. through illegal immigration. No.............our Constitution doesn't pertain to everyone. There has to be a limit.
 
Proud South Korean said:
My specialty is the Korean War and WWII. I have read and has many books on those two wars. In fact, I'm somewhat of a knowledgeable person on those two wars, but not a historian or even an amateur.
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Don't me you liked Singman Rhee........................
 
ElCid said:
Latin America interprets that 'offer' as a RIGHT to colonize the U.S. through illegal immigration. No.............our Constitution doesn't pertain to everyone. There has to be a limit.
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No they don't. They know they are supposed to go through certain channels, they just chose not to just as people chose to break the law everyday. And if you believe that the freedom of man is a universal principle, then you certainly should not look to exclude people. What does the Declaration of Independence say:

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
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Another Civil War poll. :doh
 
tlmorg02 said:
No they don't. They know they are supposed to go through certain channels, they just chose not to just as people chose to break the law everyday. And if you believe that the freedom of man is a universal principle, then you certainly should not look to exclude people. What does the Declaration of Independence say:
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Wrong. I've seen several Hispanic spokesmen on Fox argue that the Declaration of Independence gives ALL people the NATURAL RIGHT to come to America, to stay in America, once here, no matter how they got here, and be American. These spokesmen made it very clear they were defending the millions of illegals who are already here. The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution DO NOT apply to everyone under the sun.
 
ElCid said:
Wrong. I've seen several Hispanic spokesmen on Fox argue that the Declaration of Independence gives ALL people the NATURAL RIGHT to come to America, to stay in America, once here, no matter how they got here, and be American. These spokesmen made it very clear they were defending the millions of illegals who are already here. The Declaration of Independence and U.S. Constitution DO NOT apply to everyone under the sun.
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Oh well all right then. I mean no network would ever have some one with extreme views on that don't represent other than a handful of nuts.
 
Redress said:
Oh well all right then. I mean no network would ever have some one with extreme views on that don't represent other than a handful of nuts.
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Our founding documents CAN be interpreted that way. Think about it........
 
ElCid said:
Slavery was on its way out. It would've died a 'natural' death.
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Not that what you are saying here addresses the point I made, but when and where did slavery ever die a "natural" death?
 
Looking at the pole the South is taking a beating, as it should.
 
ElCid said:
Slavery was on its way out. It would've died a 'natural' death.
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Forgive me if I did not want to let my people suffer even 1 sec longer in bondage for it to suffer a "natural death." You mite as well say when the white man got tired of it and did not needs slaves anymore.

The South got exactly what it deserved.
 
Blackdog said:
Forgive me if I did not want to let my people suffer even 1 sec longer in bondage for it to suffer a "natural death." You mite as well say when the white man got tired of it and did not needs slaves anymore.

The South got exactly what it deserved.
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Blacks suffered more after the war, than before it. In the South, free blacks had the right to vote. After the war, that right was stripped.
 
apdst said:
Blacks suffered more after the war, than before it. In the South, free blacks had the right to vote. After the war, that right was stripped.
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I'm not normally one to cry shenanigans, but can you show me some proof for this claim? The voting claim, that is. Considering that the confederacy was founded on the right to own black people, I'm honestly surprised they could be freed at all, let alone become full citizens.
 
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apdst said:
Blacks suffered more after the war, than before it. In the South, free blacks had the right to vote. After the war, that right was stripped.
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Better to suffer as a free man than to die a slave.
 
Paschendale said:
I'm not normally one to cry shenanigans, but can you show me some proof for this claim? The voting claim, that is. Considering that the confederacy was founded on the right to own black people,
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Founding the Confederacy had nothing to do with, "owning black people". That's an ignorant and uninformed statement.


I'm honestly surprised they could be freed at all, let alone become full citizens.
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First Manassas started on the farm of a freed man named James Robinson. 18% of the blacks living in Prince William County, in 1860, were free blacks, who owned land.
 
Blackdog said:
Better to suffer as a free man than to die a slave.
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Quite a few brothers and sisters suffered as freed men, when they were slaughtered during draft riots in the North. I bet they weren't diggin' it all that much.
 
apdst said:
Quite a few brothers and sisters suffered as freed men, when they were slaughtered during draft riots in the North. I bet they weren't diggin' it all that much.
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Better than being a slave. Of course you don't care because of political reasons. Makes perfect sense to me. :roll:
 
Which side would you have fought for, knowing what you know today?
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Neither. I would have been a draft dodger. The Civil War was a complete waste and simply should never have been fought. It's a gross oversimplification to say things like "the North was fighting to free slaves" or "the South was fighting for states rights." The causes of the war were too numerous and complex to be reduced to one or two major issues. None of the issues were worth the deaths of hundreds of thousands of men on both sides of the conflict, in my opinion. The South would have eventually had to change its plantation-based economic system; it simply was unsustainable. The Southern states should not have broken away from the Union, but the North should not have resorted to force to keep them from seceding.
 
Blackdog said:
Wow! 18%!!!

"According to U.S. Census data, the 1860 King William County population included 2,589 whites, 416 “free colored” and 5,525 slaves." - King William County, Virginia 1860 slaveholders and 1870 African Americans

A whole 416 people out of 5500.

We should celibrate! :doh
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I bet before now, all of the, "I da South", crowd didn't even know that there were any free blacks living within the Confederacy.

Kinda blows the, "it was all about owning black people", revisionist history out of the water. Eh?
 
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