View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #311
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yeah, good point. If they had left Johnston in command, they would have still been unable to stop Sherman, but the army would have been saved.
    If Albert Sydney Johnston hadn't died at Shiloh, the entire war in the west would have been very, very different, IMO.

  2. #312
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    That's fine, pretty much everyone who reads vom kriege interprets it differently and come out with different judgments. I for one found it difficult but very insightful and applicable to modern day warfare as it pertains to strategy/policy/politics.
    I find Clause to be very insightful, but only on certain points, such as maneuver, economy of force, etc. He was a peacenic. His treatise on war was more about how to bring wars to a close, with as little loss of life as possible, than it was about all out defeat of the enemy.
    Last edited by apdst; 06-14-11 at 01:14 AM.

  3. #313
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Joe Johnston often led to the rear. I find that to be his major fault. He was fine defensibly, but otherwise Johnston had a history of remaining in place or pulling back early.
    You have a point. He did a smashing job fighting his way into Vicksburg.

  4. #314
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    Re: The Civil War

    Maybe we would be better off if the Confederacy had won the war... I mean, assuming that the end result was two countries, not one that was controlled by the Confederate constitution. Think about it, all the industry and science was concentrated in the north, all the international influence, and most of the infrastructure, food, and water. I have no doubt that the international community would have shunned the CSA for its continued practice of slavery, and it would have been far poorer than it was.

    The USA would have continued on its path, becoming a world power, and would likely have outsourced a lot of labor to its poor cousin to the south, much as we presently do with Mexico. And we would have a USA untarnished by the modern republican party, meaning no Reagan corporatism, no religious right, and no Bush wars...

    Who knows, maybe we'd have managed a better relationship with the Soviets and wouldn't have screwed up the Middle East. Modern terrorism might never have existed.

    Damn, now I wish we'd just let the south go, and saved ourselves all this trouble...
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  5. #315
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Maybe we would be better off if the Confederacy had won the war... I mean, assuming that the end result was two countries, not one that was controlled by the Confederate constitution. Think about it, all the industry and science was concentrated in the north, all the international influence, and most of the infrastructure, food, and water. I have no doubt that the international community would have shunned the CSA for its continued practice of slavery, and it would have been far poorer than it was.

    The USA would have continued on its path, becoming a world power, and would likely have outsourced a lot of labor to its poor cousin to the south, much as we presently do with Mexico. And we would have a USA untarnished by the modern republican party, meaning no Reagan corporatism, no religious right, and no Bush wars...

    Who knows, maybe we'd have managed a better relationship with the Soviets and wouldn't have screwed up the Middle East. Modern terrorism might never have existed.

    Damn, now I wish we'd just let the south go, and saved ourselves all this trouble...
    The South was slowly industrializing before the war.
    The war effectively annihilated the industrialization process.

    I believe that slavery would have effectively ended during the gilded age, if no war took place.
    Black people wouldn't have been scape goated, in the after years, by ambitious politicians.

    I think the Jim Crow era was heavily influenced by that fallout from the war.
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  6. #316
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Joe Johnston often led to the rear. I find that to be his major fault. He was fine defensibly, but otherwise Johnston had a history of remaining in place or pulling back early.
    He was the right man at the end of the war when the South had limited resources. When holding off Sherman before he was replaced with Hood, he frustrated the hell out of Sherman, holding him to less than a mile of movement a day, and beating him in casualties by a large percentage. Brilliant defensively, but certainly not offensively.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 06-14-11 at 05:40 AM.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    If Albert Sydney Johnston hadn't died at Shiloh, the entire war in the west would have been very, very different, IMO.
    I never thought much of AS Johnston. His battle plan at Shiloh was shoddy at best, completely disorganized at worst. The one thing that him surviving would have done would have been adding stablity to the leadership of the Army of Tennesse (then known as the Army of Mississippi). Hopefully it would have prevented Bragg from ever commanding.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #318
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Maybe we would be better off if the Confederacy had won the war... I mean, assuming that the end result was two countries, not one that was controlled by the Confederate constitution. Think about it, all the industry and science was concentrated in the north, all the international influence, and most of the infrastructure, food, and water. I have no doubt that the international community would have shunned the CSA for its continued practice of slavery, and it would have been far poorer than it was.The USA would have continued on its path, becoming a world power, and would likely have outsourced a lot of labor to its poor cousin to the south, much as we presently do with Mexico. And we would have a USA untarnished by the modern republican party, meaning no Reagan corporatism, no religious right, and no Bush wars...Who knows, maybe we'd have managed a better relationship with the Soviets and wouldn't have screwed up the Middle East. Modern terrorism might never have existed.
    Damn, now I wish we'd just let the south go, and saved ourselves all this trouble...
    The righteousness of the South would have eventually put the debauchery of the North on full display. Materialism and recognition aren't everything. The world the North built is Soddom and Gommorah.

    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

  9. #319
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    Re: The Civil War

    Why was a civil war fought? It was not fought to free the slaves. It was fought to preserve the Union. The fight over ending slavery began well before the civil war. Counting slaves as 3/5ths of a person was designed to lessen the power of the slaveholding states. One finds that in the Constitution (Representatives and direct Taxes shall be apportioned among the several States which may be included within this Union, according to their respective Numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole Number of free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons).

    Given the goal of preserving the Union I support the North. Given the destruction of liberty in the US today I am no longer so sure. The world needs a place of freedom. It is not likely that a separate South would have been that place either. So maybe we need to return to the Republic of Texas. Or we need to take back control of our government. The statists have held power too long. It is time to return to constitutionally limited government.

  10. #320
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    Re: The Civil War

    Well, I just spent 2 hours reading this thread from start to finish. I knew very little about the minutiae of the causes of the war or the strengths and weaknesses of the main military players. Now I do. This has been a wonderful, impressive advertisement for the strength of argument, knowledge and intelligence of DP members.

    I'm sorry that I don't have the historical education to contribute, but I did want to express my appreciation for a terrific read and for the manner of debate that all posters (El Cid excepted) have shown here. Congratulations! Sincerely.

    Now, would anyone be interested in a thread on The Wars of the Roses, the Spanish Civil War, or the Hundred Years' War? I'd be able to contribute a lot more to those.

    Last edited by Andalublue; 06-14-11 at 10:28 AM.
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