View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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    21 31.34%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #301
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't agree. Strategy is planning. Tactics is strategy in motion. This can appy to any portion of a battle or campaign.
    That is not how the military uses it. Once the enemy is in sight, it's tactics(broad comment, used to illustrate not to be 100 % true).
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  2. #302
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Maybe, but I still think IF he fought it, he still would have fought it with the reckless abandon he fought most of his engagements.
    I agree, but, Hoods battle plan at Franklin made wreckless abandon look like extreme caution. Forrest was so pissed off over the plan that he said something to the effect of, "If you were a whole man, I would beat you within an inch of your life...goddamn you!". I can't remember his exact words, but I think that's close.

    It could have been worse, I guess; Bragg could have still been in command.

  3. #303
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    Re: The Civil War

    most of you know me as a Clausewitz disciple...as he put it, strategy is the employment of battles to end the war, for what that is worth.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  4. #304
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    That is not how the military uses it. Once the enemy is in sight, it's tactics(broad comment, used to illustrate not to be 100 % true).
    I'm not military. I'm using layman's definitions. Perhaps THAT'S the disconnect.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
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    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't know about that. Yes, Hood changed after Gettysburg... similar to Ewell after Groveton, but Hood was always a gambler and preferred a head on approach to tactics. Good for a brigade commander, Disasterous for an army commander.
    This is great stuff, I'm loving this discussion!










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  6. #306
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't agree. Strategy is planning. Tactics is strategy in motion. This can appy to any portion of a battle or campaign.
    Tactics are, "the handling of men", as defined in a period manual on infantry tactics, but I can't remember if it's Hardee's, or another one.

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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    I agree, but, Hoods battle plan at Franklin made wreckless abandon look like extreme caution. Forrest was so pissed off over the plan that he said something to the effect of, "If you were a whole man, I would beat you within an inch of your life...goddamn you!". I can't remember his exact words, but I think that's close.

    It could have been worse, I guess; Bragg could have still been in command.
    Yeah, good point. If they had left Johnston in command, they would have still been unable to stop Sherman, but the army would have been saved.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #308
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    most of you know me as a Clausewitz disciple...as he put it, strategy is the employment of battles to end the war, for what that is worth.
    Clausewitz was kinduva **** nut, too. Not completely, but purdy much. I like his ideas on maneuver, but that's where he and I part company.

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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yeah, good point. If they had left Johnston in command, they would have still been unable to stop Sherman, but the army would have been saved.
    Joe Johnston often led to the rear. I find that to be his major fault. He was fine defensibly, but otherwise Johnston had a history of remaining in place or pulling back early.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  10. #310
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Clausewitz was kinduva **** nut, too. Not completely, but purdy much. I like his ideas on maneuver, but that's where he and I part company.
    That's fine, pretty much everyone who reads vom kriege interprets it differently and come out with different judgments. I for one found it difficult but very insightful and applicable to modern day warfare as it pertains to strategy/policy/politics.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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