View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #191
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Depends. Which traditional values are we talking about, and how was the north trying to stamp them out?
    Look at what has become of the North? It's a moral cesspool.
    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

  2. #192
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    Re: The Civil War

    I am a Westerner at heart. Having lived in the South for a long time, I identify with it, in many critical ways. Whenever I think of the 'North', I imagine New York, which I loathe. I would have fought for the South. If I had survived, I would have immediately withdrawn back to the West.
    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

  3. #193
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    LOL .... which makes us different how ?
    I stated my position, you did not, you tried to make a claim. That's the difference.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    C'mon, you can look it up.
    If I were getting paid or collage credit for my participation, I might see a reason to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    I have provided links earlier in the thread .. how 'bout choo
    Just got here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Here is a paragraph of a review about a book that heavily examines what is known as "The Panic of 1857", and how it exacerbated relations between the North and South. The book examines all the tariff issues, and much more:


    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    As I have noted from the beginning, the issue of slavery was a component of every other cause explained here.
    Silly anon, no one ever said it wasn't a mere 'component'.

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    From one "anon" to another, the ball is in your court
    But I'm in the bleachers....
    Last edited by Jerry; 06-12-11 at 04:31 PM.

  4. #194
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Look at what has become of the North? It's a moral cesspool.
    And that has what to do with the Civil War?
    Are you coming to bed?
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  5. #195
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    And that has what to do with the Civil War?
    I think he's referring to the Union in general, and his overall disapproval of American ethics today.

  6. #196
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    I stated my position, you did not, you tried to make a claim. That's the difference.
    We all have stated positions. "Claims" if you will.

    Silly anon, no one ever said it wasn't a mere 'component'.
    "Silly anon", the argument is cause. Tariffs were a mere "component". The argument is that slavery was the under-lying cause. Solve the slavery issue in the 1820's or 30's, and no war. Virtually every other influence for the war linked to it as well. Kind of like your engine being a "component" of how well your car runs.

    But I'm in the bleachers....
    So is the ball.

  7. #197
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They were not at war. War was started by the attack on the forts. The only way to regain the fort and the states, is to attack them. The north damn well knew this, and they are the ones that started the war by those acts.
    the war started when confederate forces attacked fort sumter in south carolina, a U.S. military installation.

  8. #198
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    Re: The Civil War

    In case people try to contort what I say as being something I don't mean, I will pre-face this by saying I am anti-slavery and I think what happened in our history was barbaric.

    I ultimately favor the north, but I can sympathize with the south. If you can put yourself in the context of those times as much as is possible, the south relied heavily on slavery as its economic base. The north had more industry - it had the luxury of being righteous because it was where a lot of the industrial manufacturing took place. The south was primarily agriculture and slavery was the long-standing norm for their agrarian base. Then you had the north with its cushy advancements suddenly coming in and telling them that not only was their whole way of life immoral, but that it had to be changed immediately.

    How would you react? I am not surprised at all that it caused war. Every western European nation, its colonies, and its offshoots partook in the Atlantic slave trade. Back then it was a normal part of life. Yes, we can all agree that it was horrible in hindsight, but they were of a different consciousness back then. What the north tried to do, back then, would have been very controversial, given the state of the western world as a whole. Telling us we can't have or buy slaves? Who the hell are you?

    Ultimately what the north did was very brave, bold, and progressive - much like how every civil rights movement has to fly in the face of established norms - but I can still understand why the south reacted the way it did. It had big economic, social, and political implications.

    What we can garner from the civil war is not that one side was right and one side was wrong, but that if change is too radical and too fast, it can tear a nation apart. Again - for emphasis - I AGREE with what the north did, I am just trying to take a broader lesson away from the history.

  9. #199
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The North didn't want to free the slaves. Your garden variety working stiff in the North didn't want to have to compete with former slaves for jobs. Plus, they didn't want a bunch of, "darkies", running around, free. In fact, Lincoln had planned to ship all the freed slaves back to Africa. Ever hear of Liberia?
    if lincoln could have preserved the union without freeing the slaves, he would have done so....he believed that slavery would die out on its own...history put lincoln in a very favorable light....a sidenote, lincoln didnt believe that blacks and whites were equal.

  10. #200
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Well while Grant was a horrible general aswell, Lee had no strategical sense, he just wouldn't gauge a situation and would run into situations attacking things head first. His basic idea in war was that it was about strength and that if you pitted his army against another he would win in a head on approach. The proper way to fight war is fought seeking the least path of resistance. My problem with Lee and the reason I listed Gettysburg as my example of his ignorance and cockiness is because of this basic failure on his part.
    lee was first offered command of the union forces before the start of hostilities, but chose to return to his home state, and lead his state's forces..lincoln was very fond of grant, for the simple reason that grant wasnt afraid to fight, as some of the earlier union generals appeared to be.

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