View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #11
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    *The "right" for states to have slavery.
    Slavery would've died out, eventually, anyway. Even Brazil gave it up, late in the 19th Century.
    NOTICE: I am not a troll, because what I write I believe, and I have no intention of derailing threads or manipulating human nature. I am not a terrorist, because I do not endorse the killing of innocent people, and I am not here to promote violence. I AM HERE ONLY TO EXPRESS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND ENJOY LIVELY DISCUSSION.

  2. #12
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I would of fought for state rights, but I would of never allowed Lee to lead that didn't understand you don't fight to fight, but to win. He was a cocky little man that didn't understand anything about war.

    Though lets all remember the south didn't start aggression.
    No state should have to the right to allow slavery within it's borders.
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  3. #13
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Of course I understand your position, but can't you see any virtue at all in the traditional values of the South? Can you objectify the South, at least enough to acknowledge its traditionalism?
    Depends. Which traditional values are we talking about, and how was the north trying to stamp them out?
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  4. #14
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Slavery would've died out, eventually, anyway. Even Brazil gave it up, late in the 19th Century.
    In 1860, half the wealth of the south was in the form of slaves. That's a pretty strong economic incentive. You're right that eventually it would have died out, but it could have easily taken another 50 years or longer. It is unacceptable for a nation to tolerate such grotesque human rights abuses within its own borders.
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Depends. Which traditional values are we talking about, and how was the north trying to stamp them out?
    I would also like to know why some people think something being a traditional value is an indicator of it being good?
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  6. #16
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    I would also like to know why some people think something being a traditional value is an indicator of it being good?
    I would also like to know how the North exhibited LACK of traditional values, and how the North was trying to attack these values.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Tell me more about why you don't like Lee. I always considered him a giant among men.
    Killing men is not the goal of war, but to Lee that was all he appeared to be interested in. There is numerous accounts where he fought battles in ignorant and resource hogging ways or examples where he would go out of his path to go to battle with an enemy that played no strategic advantage for him to fight. He ignored that war is about the mind, that war is meant to be fought with as little resources as possible, not to throw men at the enemy like they are fodder waiting for something to change. A great strategy for him would of been to take out soft targets at the same time in different sides of the field to avoid battles to move his enemy to his advantage and keep them off balance, not knowing where exactly he is, but he instead keep them knowing right where he is with his head on approach, that could make sense if you have had greater numbers than your enemy or weren't at all interested in men. All of this is seen in the best example of his ignorance when he was managing how to deal with Gettysburg. He was in the process of actually doing almost what I just said, going to a soft target, but when he heard news of an army going across the land, he decided to abandon this and run over to fight them for no reason what so ever. Then when he got there he decided to fight the enemy uphill sending men up the hill to be killed. He could of just avoided the fight, or when he got there killed them quickly by surprise to his advantage, but no, he fought them head on, when they had higher ground. I have no respect for a man that uses men like fodder, sorry.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-11-11 at 06:12 PM.

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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Your Star View Post
    No state should have to the right to allow slavery within it's borders.
    The war was never about slaves. Ask the north why they attacked, property, ask the south why they defended themselves, property and the right to leave the nation.

    Why they left the nation is a completely different debate, but people like you decide to blend it together as if its the same. Its not.

  9. #19
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by ElCid View Post
    Of course I understand your position, but can't you see any virtue at all in the traditional values of the South? Can you objectify the South, at least enough to acknowledge its traditionalism?
    If that "value" involves me bing a slave? **** them and their ****ed up values.
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  10. #20
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The war was never about slaves. Ask the north why they attacked, property, ask the south why they defended themselves, property and the right to leave the nation.
    What property did the north gain from the war? Certainly nowhere near enough to justify the costs of the war.
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