View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #161
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    However brutal the north's strategy against the Confederacy may have been, I'm pretty sure it doesn't top the southern states' own habit of subjecting their residents to rape every day of their lives, beating them into compliance, keeping them locked in animal sheds, and forcing them to do backbreaking work in the fields from sunrise to sunset.

    But I guess that's just looking at it from a "21st century perspective." How silly of me.
    Compared to what in the North?










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  2. #162
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    To my knowledge, the northern (Union) states had freed their slaves and made slavery illegal. I won't deny that racism existed among citizens, but that is an issue for individuals. Slavery was abolished in the Union. Liberia was created as an option for freed slaves to go back to Africa if they chose to do so. The south wanted to preserve slavery and deny blacks their rights as human beings and free individuals. I do not believe this can be justified. The south was clearly at fault and is responsible for instigating the war that killed thousands of human lives. They fought to protect their warped view of human rights and the institution of slavery. They were wrong and their fighting is not justified.
    Digsbe, a common, although incorrect, assumption is that the Union states emancipated the slaves prior to the War Between the States. That is incorrect. As an example, many, many people in New York City, supported slavery.

    Slavery was and is a horrible thing. I don't think that anyone here has defended the inexcusable institution. However, if you take the time to study history the idea that "North = Good and South = Wrong" is misleading and incorrect. As I mentioned earlier, the North ran the slave trade from Africa. The North controlled shipping and the Northern shipping industry controlled the slave trade from Africa. That's fact. I am not absolving the South of guilt. I am, however, saying that the North was also responsible for slavery. The North participated in slavery. People in New York City became wealthy from the trading of slaves and many were not supportive of ending slavery. When did New Jersey abolish slavery? Look it up.

    IF the South fought only for slavery, as you posit, then you might have a valid argument, but if you will read about the history of the conflict you will see that slavery was an issue, but not THE issue for the war.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  3. #163
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Texas v. White wasn't 100 years later. It was from 1869. It is completely appropriate to bring it up. Though precedence and usage of the Founder's interpretation of the Constitution, it demonstrated that secession was illegal.
    Ah sorry, it wasn't 1976, my bad. I should of looked it up instead of using my memory. My point still stands though on the accounts.


    No, your interpretation is not accurate. Hamilton was clear about the importance of a strong central govenment and the importance of no dissension or hostility between the states in order to support the central government.
    He was talking about the importance of a federal government and how without it the states would be jealous of each other. They needed some sort of conflict middle man to cool conflicts so they didn't arise to be more. You seeing things that aren't there is your problem, not mine.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-12-11 at 12:58 AM.

  4. #164
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    You're confusing Lee with Grant. Your post describes Grant perfectly.
    Well while Grant was a horrible general aswell, Lee had no strategical sense, he just wouldn't gauge a situation and would run into situations attacking things head first. His basic idea in war was that it was about strength and that if you pitted his army against another he would win in a head on approach. The proper way to fight war is fought seeking the least path of resistance. My problem with Lee and the reason I listed Gettysburg as my example of his ignorance and cockiness is because of this basic failure on his part.

  5. #165
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    However brutal the north's strategy against the Confederacy may have been, I'm pretty sure it doesn't top the southern states' own habit of subjecting their residents to rape every day of their lives, beating them into compliance, keeping them locked in animal sheds, and forcing them to do backbreaking work in the fields from sunrise to sunset.

    But I guess that's just looking at it from a "21st century perspective." How silly of me.
    No, you're just falling for a bull**** version of history. I'm not the least bit surprised that you buy into it, either.

  6. #166
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    To my knowledge, the northern (Union) states had freed their slaves and made slavery illegal. I won't deny that racism existed among citizens, but that is an issue for individuals. Slavery was abolished in the Union. Liberia was created as an option for freed slaves to go back to Africa if they chose to do so. The south wanted to preserve slavery and deny blacks their rights as human beings and free individuals. I do not believe this can be justified. The south was clearly at fault and is responsible for instigating the war that killed thousands of human lives. They fought to protect their warped view of human rights and the institution of slavery. They were wrong and their fighting is not justified.
    But, not because they were black. You seeing it from the wrong perspective. The Confederate Congress debated a bill that put poor whites into slavery. You want to make it a race thing and put it into modern PC terms, but that's way off base.

  7. #167
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Slavery was not officially ended until 1865, with the 13th amendment, at the end of the American Civil War.
    So to say that the north was fighting to free slaves is entirely false.

    The Emancipation Proclamation was a political tool to encourage slaves in the Confederate states to revolt.
    I'll put it a bette way: the United States government didn't end slavery until 1865. Before that the states decided for themselves to abolish slavery.

  8. #168
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Well while Grant was a horrible general aswell, Lee had no strategical sense, he just wouldn't gauge a situation and would run into situations attacking things head first. His basic idea in war was that it was about strength and that if you pitted his army against another he would win in a head on approach. The proper way to fight war is fought seeking the least path of resistance. My problem with Lee and the reason I listed Gettysburg as my example of his ignorance and cockiness is because of this basic failure on his part.
    Grant didn't have to seek the path of least resistance. He had far more man power to draw than the South and therefore could absorb more losses. It was Grant's strategy to lose men at the same rate as the Confederates--or more--because he knew the Confederates weren't able to replace that combat power once it was lost.

    An example of what I'm talking about: Company B, 46th Mississippi Infantry went to war with 112 soldiers in ranks. In '65, when it surrendered at Mobile, there were 8 men left in the company.

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    Re: The Civil War

    Some interesting arguments here, but I must rebut. The fundamental issue of the war was slavery. If one wants to call it "state's rights", the primary right was the existence of slavery. The South saw a creep towards abolition, with Northern states imposing their will on Southern states via the Federal Government.

    The Emancipation Proclamation was more to rejuvenate the cause of the War, and not so much with an expectation of causing southern blacks to revolt. The victory at Antietam provided Lincoln with the foundation to make abolition the issue for the North, especially moving into the upcoming elections against the not-so-abolitionist Democrats. He also needed a Constitutional foundation, and if one notes, the slaves were only "emancipated" in the rebellion states. Not in such as Maryland, for instance. There was no legal basis upon which the Federal Government could free them in Northern States.

    Prior to the War, there had been serious considerations in the Federal Government to come up with a formula to essentially "buy out slavery", that is to pass laws that phased it out state-by-state and to compensate the owners monetarily. This is likely what would have happened had there been no war. In the end, the cost would have been exponentially less than the War.

    Lincoln and the rest of his generals thought that the War would be over in a month or two. It was a huge miscalculation. One for which Lincoln gets too much of a pass IMMHO.

  10. #170
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    Re: The Civil War

    Having the benefit of distance and history, I would say neither side was 'right'. The road that led to the civil war was created over economics. It became a pissing contest. It had little if anything to do with slavery as a matter of freedom for the slaves. The actions of the North AND the South created an environment where instead of the insitution ofslavery ending a natural death within a few years (as the North had done, many in the South had already done, and most of the rest of the world was doing at the time) , racial strife and tension still endure today.

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