View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #121
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    Re: The Civil War

    First and foremost, Cid, it was not a civil war. Get it right. There was no law that prevented succession. The South succeeded and became a separate nation. It was the War of Northern Aggression. The South did not invade the North until later in the war and it did so defensively. Bobby Lee could have and should have prosecuted his invasion of the North early on as eventually did. The war would have ended much sooner. The South lost and the North wrote the history, often incorrectly.

    My great, great grandfather and my great, great uncles served under Maxcy Gregg in the 12th South Carolina Volunteer Infantry and fought in many of the big battles including the Wilderness and the Bloody Angle.

    Slavery was wrong, though my family owned slaves. When my great, great grandfather left he freed his slaves and gave them the option of leaving or sharing in ownership of the farm. I'm not excusing his actions. It is what it is. My grandmother died when she was 107 and my great, great grandfather died when he was 92. I am fortunate that my family history was fairly current in that regard. I don't know how many slaves my family owned or how many elected to stay. I do know that two slaves, "Aunt Mandy" and "Uncle Ease" elected to stay and stayed throughout the war. They were given some of the land that belonged to my great, great grandfather. It wasn't worth much by then as Sherman's troops stole and burned damn near everything.

    What would I do today? That is not a fair question as the zeitgeist of that time and now as so vastly different. Southern born and bred people - white and black - still today identify themselves by the Southern heritage above even their national heritage. Southern culture would not be what it is without black and white people. We share so many things in common. We would not be who we are without each other.

    I do believe that had the South won the war slavery would have ended anyway, and that there wouldn't be the racism in the South that exists today.

    The war was largely a war between two vastly different cultures and two distinct economies. Was slavery a factor? Yes, I believe it was. Was it the single reason? Was it the reason that the South continued the fight after such terrible and tragic losses? Was it the reason that Bobby Lee's army begged him to continue on after Gettysburg and Appomattox? No, it was not.










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  2. #122
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    I would of fought for state rights, but I would of never allowed Lee to lead that didn't understand you don't fight to fight, but to win. He was a cocky little man that didn't understand anything about war.

    Though lets all remember the south didn't start aggression.
    That is a rather uninformed response. I'm trying to be nice when I say that. ANY student of the war would never make such a ignorant statement. I would ask you to document your position or to remain quiet and informed and objective people continue the discussion.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  3. #123
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    In 1860, half the wealth of the south was in the form of slaves. That's a pretty strong economic incentive. You're right that eventually it would have died out, but it could have easily taken another 50 years or longer. It is unacceptable for a nation to tolerate such grotesque human rights abuses within its own borders.
    The North owned the slave trade. The North owned slave shipping. No CSA flag ever flew over a slave ship.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  4. #124
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Objectivity? Ok, be aware of the fact that Lincoln ceded that the arsenals were on Confederate soil, hence the reason he abandoned them. Lincoln also believed that Fort Sumpter wasn't within Confederate waters, hence the reason he didn't abandon it.
    No, Lincoln didn't abandon it because it was Federal property. He also ordered all of the forts and arsenals that were seized in the seceeding states to be retaken.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  5. #125
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The fort was Federal property. Attacking a federal installation is an act of war.
    The fort was federal property, but they didn't' attack it. You need to watch your terms that you use.

    You know, since you always harp on it, I see no reason to not do so here. D:

  6. #126
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Killing men is not the goal of war, but to Lee that was all he appeared to be interested in. There is numerous accounts where he fought battles in ignorant and resource hogging ways or examples where he would go out of his path to go to battle with an enemy that played no strategic advantage for him to fight. He ignored that war is about the mind, that war is meant to be fought with as little resources as possible, not to throw men at the enemy like they are fodder waiting for something to change. A great strategy for him would of been to take out soft targets at the same time in different sides of the field to avoid battles to move his enemy to his advantage and keep them off balance, not knowing where exactly he is, but he instead keep them knowing right where he is with his head on approach, that could make sense if you have had greater numbers than your enemy or weren't at all interested in men. All of this is seen in the best example of his ignorance when he was managing how to deal with Gettysburg. He was in the process of actually doing almost what I just said, going to a soft target, but when he heard news of an army going across the land, he decided to abandon this and run over to fight them for no reason what so ever. Then when he got there he decided to fight the enemy uphill sending men up the hill to be killed. He could of just avoided the fight, or when he got there killed them quickly by surprise to his advantage, but no, he fought them head on, when they had higher ground. I have no respect for a man that uses men like fodder, sorry.
    Back it up! Trot out your truth. You do not know what you are talking about. Show us. Give us many examples.










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



  7. #127
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    The fort was federal property, but they didn't' attack it. You need to watch your terms that you use.

    You know, since you always harp on it, I see no reason to not do so here. D:
    They fired on the Fort. That's an attack. I used the correct word.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  8. #128
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Yes, they are.
    No, attacking a fort is hardly the same.


    Just because the decision differs from your position doesn't make it invalid.
    That isn't what I said. What I said is that it was more than a hundred years after 1861, and the people on the court would of never sided with secession. Its meaningless to bring it up.


    Yeah, it did. Read it again.
    No, I explained what he was doing, but you took it as if to say he meant something he didn't.
    Last edited by Henrin; 06-11-11 at 08:54 PM.

  9. #129
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    That is a rather uninformed response. I'm trying to be nice when I say that. ANY student of the war would never make such a ignorant statement. I would ask you to document your position or to remain quiet and informed and objective people continue the discussion.
    What part is uniformed again?

  10. #130
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    Back it up! Trot out your truth. You do not know what you are talking about. Show us. Give us many examples.
    Oh so, when I say Lee was horrible general, you have a problem with it. I see. Well, I have moved on from that, but feel free to look at his strategies on your own.

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