View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #111
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Taking over the arsenals WAS an act of war and illegal. This and the attack on Fort Sumpter, attacking a Federal installation goes toward the presentation of the aggression of the south in this situation. Whether or not the North acted on the arsenal takeover is not relevant towards what they represented.
    They did however act. They acted by starting a dispute over the land, and the fort. That later lead to them attacking the fort.

  2. #112
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Personally, I think that slavery would have died before 1900 if not much sooner. During the Civil War, Great Britain greatly increased its cotton imports from India and Egypt. The North's blockade no doubt played a large role in this, but the trend was inevitable, especially after the Suez Canal was built. However, the Civil War was not all about slavery. The South felt threatened by abolition; the Wealthy were afraid of its damage to their profits, and the working class Whites were afraid of having to compete with freed Blacks and having them on a similar social standing as them. Slavery was holding back the Southern economy, but many did not feel that way. As the saying went, "Cotton is King."

    However, the North was much more interested in preserving the Union. I'm a pretty strong Unionist, and the South's seizure of Federal property without compensation would be reason enough for my support of the North. I also see this as a separate issue from the American War of Independence, where we used violence to secede from Britain, because the South had ample representation in Congress unlike the 13 Colonies in Parliament.

    The South certainly didn't see it that way; trade policies intended to force the South to buy from/sell to the North, instead of overseas, at worse prices, were one of the root causes of the War. A close second was the Nullification of such laws by southern states. A big part of the reason there was a war at all was the North's relative control of Congress, and how they used it as a blunt instrument for their own economic advantage.

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  3. #113
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Taking over the arsenals WAS an act of war and illegal. This and the attack on Fort Sumpter, attacking a Federal installation goes toward the presentation of the aggression of the south in this situation. Whether or not the North acted on the arsenal takeover is not relevant towards what they represented.
    Perhaps from your modern perspective, however that's not what got things kicked off and Lincoln had never intended on responding to the seizure of the arsenals, since no Federal troops were involved. Again, the arsenals had been abandoned by the Federals and left to the Confederates.

  4. #114
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Attacking and what the south did are not the same.
    Yes, they are.

    By a liberal court that all didn't agree with succession a good 115 years after the civil war. It might as well not exist at all.
    Just because the decision differs from your position doesn't make it invalid.

    As I said he didn't say any of what you said.
    Yeah, it did. Read it again.
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    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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  5. #115
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They did however act. They acted by starting a dispute over the land, and the fort. That later lead to them attacking the fort.
    The fort was Federal property. Attacking a federal installation is an act of war.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #116
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Perhaps from your modern perspective, however that's not what got things kicked off and Lincoln had never intended on responding to the seizure of the arsenals, since no Federal troops were involved. Again, the arsenals had been abandoned by the Federals and left to the Confederates.
    All of which remains irrelevant, apdst. What was intended or what was done doesn't matter as to the legality of taking the arsenals.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #117
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by DrunkenAsparagus View Post
    Personally, I think that slavery would have died before 1900 if not much sooner. During the Civil War, Great Britain greatly increased its cotton imports from India and Egypt. The North's blockade no doubt played a large role in this, but the trend was inevitable, especially after the Suez Canal was built. However, the Civil War was not all about slavery. The South felt threatened by abolition; the Wealthy were afraid of its damage to their profits, and the working class Whites were afraid of having to compete with freed Blacks and having them on a similar social standing as them. Slavery was holding back the Southern economy, but many did not feel that way. As the saying went, "Cotton is King."

    However, the North was much more interested in preserving the Union. I'm a pretty strong Unionist, and the South's seizure of Federal property without compensation would be reason enough for my support of the North. I also see this as a separate issue from the American War of Independence, where we used violence to secede from Britain, because the South had ample representation in Congress unlike the 13 Colonies in Parliament.
    The anti-Southern Republicans had a strong majority in Congress and had the White House. The South didn't feel like they were being represented.

  8. #118
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    All of which remains irrelevant, apdst. What was intended or what was done doesn't matter as to the legality of taking the arsenals.
    The North's point of view, at the time, isn't irrelevant.

  9. #119
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The North's point of view, at the time, isn't irrelevant.
    Objectively, it is irrelevant.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #120
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Objectively, it is irrelevant.
    Objectivity? Ok, be aware of the fact that Lincoln ceded that the arsenals were on Confederate soil, hence the reason he abandoned them. Lincoln also believed that Fort Sumpter wasn't within Confederate waters, hence the reason he didn't abandon it.

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