View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

Voters
67. You may not vote on this poll
  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
Page 11 of 37 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast
Results 101 to 110 of 367

Thread: The Civil War

  1. #101
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,524

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    The north wasn't much better in terms of representative government. The US didn't become a de jure democracy until 1920, and a de facto democracy until the mid-1960s. Prior to that, the US was at best an oligarchy and at worst a totalitarian dictatorship, depending on where you lived and who you were.

    My point isn't that the north was so much better than the south in terms of democracy, it's that all the talk about "states' rights" in the context of slavery is bull****, because A) basic rights are not subject to a vote, and B) the state had no democratic legitimacy to enslave its residents or secede from the country anyway.
    You're cheating yourself by looking at the period from a 21st Century perspective.

  2. #102
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,524

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Morality Games View Post
    The southern states "might" have had the right to secede from the Union, but not the way they did.
    What did they do wrong?

  3. #103
    Enemy Combatant
    Kandahar's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    Washington, DC
    Last Seen
    10-15-13 @ 08:47 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    20,688

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    What did they do wrong?
    Their governments abused the rights of the people living within them. What makes the Southern United States circa 1860 any better than the Sudan today?
    Are you coming to bed?
    I can't. This is important.
    What?
    Someone is WRONG on the internet! -XKCD

  4. #104
    Dungeon Master
    anti socialist

    X Factor's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Texas Proud
    Last Seen
    Today @ 10:21 AM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    44,727

    Re: The Civil War

    I don't know that "right" and "wrong" are the appropriate words. It's just something this country had to go through to become the nation the US is today. As I am quite pleased with this country, seems to me the proof is in the results and right "side" won.
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  5. #105
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,781

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Seizing the Federal arsenals isn't what kicked off the war. The Federal Army had abandoned all those installations.

    The attack on Fort Sumpter started the war. The Northern saber rattling that went on prior to the bombardment was just for show. The North would have never invaded, premptively. Then, again, Lincoln knew that he wouldn't have to invade. He knew there were enough hotheads in the South that wanted to fire the first shot.

    Gotta look at things in the proper perspective, dude.
    Seizing the Federal installations was cause for war... as was attacking Fort Sumpter, initiated by the South. Confederate militia attacked the fort, certainly an act of war. There was enough "saber rattling" going on with both sides, but this really isn't relevant. The south initiated hostilities by seizing Federal property and attacking a federal fort.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #106
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,524

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Seizing the Federal installations was cause for war... as was attacking Fort Sumpter, initiated by the South. Confederate militia attacked the fort, certainly an act of war. There was enough "saber rattling" going on with both sides, but this really isn't relevant. The south initiated hostilities by seizing Federal property and attacking a federal fort.
    Taking over the arsenals didn't start the war. Period. Lincoln never intended on invading the South prior to the firing on Fort Sumpter. Lincoln was hoping that he wouldn't have to invade at all, but he knew better.

  7. #107
    Sage
    apdst's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Location
    Bagdad, La.
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:44 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    76,524

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Their governments abused the rights of the people living within them. What makes the Southern United States circa 1860 any better than the Sudan today?
    You're still looking at it through 21st Century glasses. You'll never learn anything as long as you keep clinging to your hatred of Southerners.

  8. #108
    Sage
    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Not affiliated with other libertarians.
    Last Seen
    09-01-17 @ 02:38 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    28,955

    Re: The Civil War

    Amazon.com: A Renegade History of the United States (9781416571063): Thaddeus Russell: Books

    Interesting book.
    Has a chapter on slavery and how many of the common believes on the subject and lives of slaves are misguided and misunderstood.
    It doesn't advocate slavery but merely points out the flaws of some of the modern beliefs about it.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  9. #109
    Global Moderator
    I'm a Jedi Master, Yo

    CaptainCourtesy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:47 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    152,781

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    Taking over the arsenals didn't start the war. Period. Lincoln never intended on invading the South prior to the firing on Fort Sumpter. Lincoln was hoping that he wouldn't have to invade at all, but he knew better.
    Taking over the arsenals WAS an act of war and illegal. This and the attack on Fort Sumpter, attacking a Federal installation goes toward the presentation of the aggression of the south in this situation. Whether or not the North acted on the arsenal takeover is not relevant towards what they represented.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

    ====||:-D

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  10. #110
    Banned
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Last Seen
    07-19-17 @ 03:51 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    60,458

    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    They did attack something. YOU have your history backwards.
    Attacking and what the south did are not the same.

    It confirmed that secession was not legal. Irrelevant as to when the case came to the SCOTUS.
    By a liberal court that all didn't agree with succession a good 115 years after the civil war. It might as well not exist at all.

    And I meant Federalist 6. Hit the wrong key... though Hamilton's discussion on the topic DOES continue in Federalist 7.
    As I said he didn't say any of what you said.

Page 11 of 37 FirstFirst ... 91011121321 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •