View Poll Results: Who was right: North or South?

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  • North

    39 58.21%
  • South

    21 31.34%
  • Neither

    7 10.45%
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Thread: The Civil War

  1. #91
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    They didn't attack anything. You have your history all backwards.
    They did attack something. YOU have your history backwards.

    From 1976. Yeah, that isn't even an argument and Federalist 7 says nothing of that sort. It argues why the federal government is needed and the relationship of states to each.
    It confirmed that secession was not legal. Irrelevant as to when the case came to the SCOTUS.

    And I meant Federalist 6. Hit the wrong key... though Hamilton's discussion on the topic DOES continue in Federalist 7.
    Last edited by CaptainCourtesy; 06-11-11 at 08:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
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  2. #92
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well back then, there was really no such thing as the modern understanding of human rights.
    So it's a moot point in the historical sense.
    There was enough understanding of the concept to inspire an abolitionist movement. Maybe they didn't call it human rights back then, but the idea definitely existed.
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  3. #93
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The viewpoint in the South, was that those military installations were on sovereign soil, illegally and the Confederate government had every right to sieze them.

    You can't judge history from a modern perspective.
    The Confederate's position is irrelevant as the land was Federally owned. I can't just say, "well, I'm a country now, so the land that I am standing on is mine." They seized federal property, an act of war.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  4. #94
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    I don't know how many there were, nor is it relevant. The point is that the majority of the people were NOT allowed to vote. The southern states were in no way democratic and in no way represented the views of the people who actually lived in those states.
    The voting rights in the South were the same as in the North, with the exception that freed men could vote in the South.

  5. #95
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    Re: The Civil War

    The southern states "might" have had the right to secede from the Union, but not the way they did.
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  6. #96
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Extreme abolitionists? As in, people who REALLY wanted to abolish slavery? Yes, what an unreasonable viewpoint!
    Stop being over emotional. These were the people who WANTED war and WANTED to fight and punish the south. Some of them were nothing more than terrorists. John Brown comes to mind.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #97
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    The Confederate's position is irrelevant as the land was Federally owned. I can't just say, "well, I'm a country now, so the land that I am standing on is mine." They seized federal property, an act of war.
    Seizing the Federal arsenals isn't what kicked off the war. The Federal Army had abandoned all those installations.

    The attack on Fort Sumpter started the war. The Northern saber rattling that went on prior to the bombardment was just for show. The North would have never invaded, premptively. Then, again, Lincoln knew that he wouldn't have to invade. He knew there were enough hotheads in the South that wanted to fire the first shot.

    Gotta look at things in the proper perspective, dude.

  8. #98
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The voting rights in the South were the same as in the North, with the exception that freed men could vote in the South.
    The north wasn't much better in terms of representative government. The US didn't become a de jure democracy until 1920, and a de facto democracy until the mid-1960s. Prior to that, the US was at best an oligarchy and at worst a totalitarian dictatorship, depending on where you lived and who you were.

    My point isn't that the north was so much better than the south in terms of democracy, it's that all the talk about "states' rights" in the context of slavery is bull****, because A) basic rights are not subject to a vote, and B) the state had no democratic legitimacy to enslave its residents or secede from the country anyway.
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  9. #99
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    There was enough understanding of the concept to inspire an abolitionist movement. Maybe they didn't call it human rights back then, but the idea definitely existed.
    To some degree yes, but not as widely accepted and understood as most think.

    A lot of the abolitionists were more interested in spreading their religion to the "heathen" slaves, than freeing them.
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  10. #100
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    Re: The Civil War

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    Extreme abolitionists? As in, people who REALLY wanted to abolish slavery? Yes, what an unreasonable viewpoint!
    It's not unreasonable when you consider that they all called for war and very few of them enlisted once it started.

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