View Poll Results: Incandescent Light bulb ban.... do you care?

Voters
76. You may not vote on this poll
  • I care! The ban is foolish! I want my incandescent bulbs!

    20 26.32%
  • I like the ban! Bring on new lighting technology!

    20 26.32%
  • I dont care either way!

    13 17.11%
  • I like incandescent bulbs and fluorescent ones. But dont make a law about them!

    19 25.00%
  • OTHER / I dont know / Chimichanga

    4 5.26%
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Thread: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

  1. #371
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Pretty ironic post you have there Phys251. Obama is the one who shut down the space program.

    You belly ache about LesGovt putting words in your mouth and then you go on this rant about how he's against innovation. Not once has he said that. His position is that just like with the vast majority of past innovation, it doesn't come from government mandates.

  2. #372
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Pretty ironic post you have there Phys251. Obama is the one who shut down the space program.
    Um, no he didn't. He allowed the space shuttle to cease operations, but NASA is still rolling on.

    You belly ache about LesGovt putting words in your mouth and then you go on this rant about how he's against innovation. Not once has he said that. His position is that just like with the vast majority of past innovation, it doesn't come from government mandates.
    No-sir! See--right there. That's the kind of crap I'm talking about. Do you libertarian/conservatives have the slightest interest in trying to get things done, or is it more important to you to engage in a piss fight with anyone who you don't see eye-to-eye with? Thank god that the Founding Fathers, even though they too quarreled like dogs at times, were able to put their differences aside in the end.

  3. #373
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Um, no he didn't. He allowed the space shuttle to cease operations, but NASA is still rolling on.
    Well the Middle East isn't exactly the moon or Mars, but yeah, O.K.

    Obama’s new mission for NASA: Reach out to Muslim world

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: Obama


    No-sir! See--right there. That's the kind of crap I'm talking about. Do you libertarian/conservatives have the slightest interest in trying to get things done, or is it more important to you to engage in a piss fight with anyone who you don't see eye-to-eye with? Thank god that the Founding Fathers, even though they too quarreled like dogs at times, were able to put their differences aside in the end.
    You've certainly got ranting down to a science.

  4. #374
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Stop putting words in my mouth. Learn to speak truthfully, and then I might start taking you more seriously.
    I did not put words in your mouth. I said "...people from your side of the argument...""...have said that the masses are stupid..." I don't see your name in that statement. You might want to reread it and then apologize to me for doing something I did not do. If you do not believe that people from your side have made such statements, please let me know and I will repost the quotes for you.

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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Catawba View Post
    Anyone that thinks saving money is worth revolting over, have at it!
    Anyone who thinks the government should be choosing what we can have, what we can buy, what we can use, how we shall live, who we must buy health care from...is a government man and may be unsuited to live free.

    May your chains rest lightly upon you.

  6. #376
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    But I worry deeply that we have lost that focus. I worry that innovation nowadays is tarred and feathered under the guises of "big government."
    Is your argument that big government is the cause of innovation?

    Do you like it when big government and big business (GE for example) get together to select the things we shall be allowed to buy? Once we start down this path are there no limits? For example, would you be delighted (very small pun here) if big government got together with big recycling to decide that from now on all of our clothing must contain no less than 65% recycled plastic? And further that no "old" clothing would be available for purchase if it did not meet the "new, more enlightened, and efficient standard" for new clothing? Then, given that the new clothing would last for 25 years instead of the old clothing's tendency to show wear and tear after far fewer years, the price rose by a factor of ten or fifteen?

    Would you ever recognize the transition from being a citizen to being a subject, or later, a slave of the state? Would you ever recognize that you had sold, so cheaply, your right to live free from government interference, in return for the promise of utopia?

  7. #377
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    Cool Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I seriously question the truth value of these statements. You ever seen "Who Killed the Electric Car"? Do you not realize that Big Coal and Big Oil have a vested interest AGAINST cleaner energy? I am aware, however, of the unfortunate dilemma that dirty power tends to be cheap. That's a big part of the problem here. It's an even bigger problem when Big Oil companies spend only a tiny portion of their research and development on clean energy, relying instead on old, dirty technology.
    You think I have lied to you? The only difference between us is that is how we achieve things. This is the thrust of the entire discussion. You want to use coercion to bring about research and development. Conservatives do not want such tyranny.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    You are in absolutely no position to lecture me on this matter. The silent majority--get this--actually WANTS clean energy. They WANT society to press harder for developing clean, cost-effective sources of power. Do you? Or are you perfectly okay with Big Coal and Big Oil continuing to trash our seas and our skies? That's the status quo, Les. That's what we have right now. And you would fight to defend that? You think it's patriotic to continue polluting with no end in sight? Puh-lease! A fundamental part of the American Spirit is innovation. Innovation is what got us steam power in the first place, and weeded our dependence off of slavery. Innovation is what sent us to outer space. Innovation is what has given us cures to diseases that would have been an automatic death sentence just decades ago. Innovation is what will plummet the cost of clean energy far enough to put Big Coal and Big Oil out of business. Innovation is what will sharply decrease the grossly underrated health care costs due to dirty energy. THAT, sir, is what I think of when I think of patriotism. I could not be prouder of a nation that has come so far, primarily due to its innovation.
    LOL! I would be very pleased to have what you consider clean energy. I am also very pleased to have coal and oil and wish we had a great deal more. As for patriotic, cut the BS. Oppressive, authoritarian tyranny is not patriotic. You believe Chicken Little and I don't. The sky is not falling. We can move towards any energy you prefer and I would be pleased so long as the transition is within free enterprise and without the oppressive laws that you favor.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    But I worry deeply that we have lost that focus. I worry that innovation nowadays is tarred and feathered under the guises of "big government." Had the Tea Party the influence back in the 1960s that it does now, I seriously wonder whether our spaceships would have even gotten off the ground. The USSR would have kicked our tails and made us look silly. And guess what? Quietly, that exact same thing is going on. Several other nations are leading the charge in clean energy--Denmark, Germany, Spain, China, and even India. Meanwhile, we sit on our butts and whine about some freakin' lightbulb and how it's about to become too freakin' efficient. Jesus, what have we come to? It is a BAD thing that public policy dictates that an appliance be efficient?? What the hell??
    I can sum up our differences here using a word that you just used. You want public policy "dictates." I remain against dictatorial powers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    I really want to understand conservatives' position on the matter. I hear you when you say that the cost per megawatt-hour really should be the primary determining factor in terms of what energy sources we use. Disagree partially I may, but I do hear you. All I'm asking for is the same in return.
    I have heard you and very clearly. You want dictated policies. I don't.

  8. #378
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    Um, no he didn't. He allowed the space shuttle to cease operations, but NASA is still rolling on.
    NASA grieves over canceled program - Technology & science - Space - Space.com - msnbc.com

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    That's the kind of crap I'm talking about. Do you libertarian/conservatives have the slightest interest in trying to get things done,
    Perry slams Obama for closing down NASA's space shuttle program

    LOL.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 08-16-11 at 09:24 AM.

  9. #379
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Anyone who thinks the government should be choosing what we can have, what we can buy, what we can use, how we shall live, who we must buy health care from...is a government man and may be unsuited to live free.

    May your chains rest lightly upon you.
    If only you realized how ignorantly overgeneralized your argument is. "Oh the agony of having any restrictions on my choices. I should be free to buy crack and hand grenades."
    "With me everything turns into mathematics."
    "It is not enough to have a good mind. The main thing is to use it well."
    "It is truth very certain that, when it is not in one's power to determine what is true, we ought to follow what is more probable." -- Rene Descartes

  10. #380
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    Re: Incandecent Bulbs Made Illegal

    Quote Originally Posted by 1Perry View Post
    Well the Middle East isn't exactly the moon or Mars, but yeah, O.K.

    Obama’s new mission for NASA: Reach out to Muslim world

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: Obama
    There were two other goals that Obama made here. What are you thoughts on them?

    You've certainly got ranting down to a science.
    lol, that's all you can come up with? You're gonna let me get off that easy?

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    I did not put words in your mouth. I said "...people from your side of the argument...""...have said that the masses are stupid..." I don't see your name in that statement. You might want to reread it and then apologize to me for doing something I did not do. If you do not believe that people from your side have made such statements, please let me know and I will repost the quotes for you.
    You are putting words in my mouth by assuming what is on our minds, not to mention that that is a massive strawman. I could just as easily argue that your side believes that Average Joe knows exactly as much about a particular subject as someone who has given his or her life to studying it.

    Quote Originally Posted by LesGovt View Post
    You think I have lied to you? The only difference between us is that is how we achieve things. This is the thrust of the entire discussion. You want to use coercion to bring about research and development. Conservatives do not want such tyranny.
    Oh you want to lecture me about coercion? What the hell do you think the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan were? See, this is one of the many things I don't get about conservatives: It's absolutely fine to start preemptive wars, deny women's choice, and treat children like soldiers in training. But when it comes to policies that *gasp* actually make our planet a little cleaner, you guys throw a fit! What the hell, man?

    LOL! I would be very pleased to have what you consider clean energy. I am also very pleased to have coal and oil and wish we had a great deal more. As for patriotic, cut the BS. Oppressive, authoritarian tyranny is not patriotic. You believe Chicken Little and I don't. The sky is not falling. We can move towards any energy you prefer and I would be pleased so long as the transition is within free enterprise and without the oppressive laws that you favor.
    Dude, if you think that conservatism doesn't espouse any kind of authoritarianism, then you are severely misguided in what your views are. See above.

    And I couldn't see coal, oil, and gas disappear fast enough. There are all sorts of hidden costs to fossil fuels, in addition to all the known dangers. Again, I actually believe that a clean environment is a GOOD thing. For you, it's all about the money.

    Let me ask you a question I asked on another thread: If I want to burn my garbage in a city park, shouldn't I have the freedom to do so?

    I have heard you and very clearly. You want dictated policies. I don't.
    My god...you just don't get it. Why will Republicans not back down from farm subsidies? Why will Democrats not back down from CAFE standards? Because this is how stuff works, dude. See, this is one of the things I don't get about conservatives: They think that choice is the greatest thing that a human can have--subject, of course, to quite a few conditions.

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