View Poll Results: Is this poll painful to you?

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  • Yes, it is painful.

    2 28.57%
  • No, it is not painful.

    5 71.43%
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Thread: Civil War Poll

  1. #21
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    Number 2 on the list is way too simplistic, and most I actually did know correctly, but the stuff on the confederate flag was all new to me.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  2. #22
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    And the ability to unwaveringly apply that basic math and continue to apply it till he won.
    yup. there is a good reason his own men called him a bloody butcher. it was them he was butchering.

    What Lee learned, to his dismay, is winning battles is meaningless unless you win the war.
    true. Grant figured out that he could continue to lose 2-3 soldiers for every Confederate loss and still come out on top. I'm not really sure I would call that any kind of strategic brilliance.

  3. #23
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Number 2 on the list is way too simplistic, and most I actually did know correctly, but the stuff on the confederate flag was all new to me.
    I think number two is actually the best point on the list, the demographics and industrial imbalance really show the South was just about beat from the start. You'll notice its total number of Soldiers is about 20% of its total free population, while the North only seemed to have mobilized about 10% of its population. Not to mention arms production etc that was listed.

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post

    true. Grant figured out that he could continue to lose 2-3 soldiers for every Confederate loss and still come out on top. I'm not really sure I would call that any kind of strategic brilliance.
    His real brilliance wasn't in the tactics, in was in the realization that the true power of the Confederacy was in the Army of Northern Virginia. For several years Northern Generals had based their strategies on targeting cities, especially Richmond, but many others like New Orleans and the Mississippi River campaign didn't have much strategic effect. While New Orleans was a major port, the Northern Navy blocked it all off anyway, and while the Mississippi was a major logistical supply line, it was also so far away from the center of Confederate power that its loss had no real effect in the East.

    He also realized, unlike previous Generals, that the war would not be won in a single battle. And he knew without the Army of Northern Virginia there would be nothing to stop the North from getting into Virginia, where yes the center power of the Confederacy lay in cities like Richmond, but those cities could not be taken and the people would not stop fighting while there was still an ANV.

    But yes his tactics on the battlefield? Not exactly impressive.

  4. #24
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Actually it is. The single quickest, strongest, best path to victory for the North was to stop dicking around and go to an all out war of attrition, and say what you want about Grant(such as he was a terrible tactician, not entirely false), but strategically he was exceptional, and he showed the will to continue with his strategy, which was not easy. The south had what was probably the best tactical leader of the era in Lee, and previous to Grant, the North mostly fought Lee in ways that accentuated Lee's strength. Grant, for all the **** he is given, was the one general who managed to take Lee's strength away from him.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  5. #25
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I think number two is actually the best point on the list, the demographics and industrial imbalance really show the South was just about beat from the start. You'll notice its total number of Soldiers is about 20% of its total free population, while the North only seemed to have mobilized about 10% of its population. Not to mention arms production etc that was listed.
    This still left paths to victory for the south. Most simply, they could continue to demoralize the North until the will to fight was gone. The largest army does not always win, nor does the bigger country, and there are reasons for that. This does not mean that the facts listed in point 2 where not incredibly key, but to say the south had no chance is false.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  6. #26
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Does anyone besides me not get what this poll is about...
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    This still left paths to victory for the south. Most simply, they could continue to demoralize the North until the will to fight was gone. The largest army does not always win, nor does the bigger country, and there are reasons for that. This does not mean that the facts listed in point 2 where not incredibly key, but to say the south had no chance is false.
    I agree, it was a matter of Northern willpower against how bloodied the South could make them. In other words it was "the North's war to lose," luckily their willpower outlasted the South's manpower and capacity for war, but unlike the North I think there was no chance the South could have forced defeat on their enemy, they simply had to outlast them.

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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Does anyone besides me not get what this poll is about...
    O we left that behind long ago, get into the game man!

  9. #29
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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Richmond was the capital and gravitas of the Confederacy. The turning point was Lee's decision to abandon the city. The Army of Northern Virginia lost all vestige of momentum and never recovered from this event.

    אשכנזי היהודי Белый Россию

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    Re: Civil War Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    I think number two is actually the best point on the list, the demographics and industrial imbalance really show the South was just about beat from the start. You'll notice its total number of Soldiers is about 20% of its total free population, while the North only seemed to have mobilized about 10% of its population. Not to mention arms production etc that was listed.
    The war was a very close in power. The difference was management. Lee was a horrible general, that looked for fights other than victory. Great example of that is Gettysburg.

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