View Poll Results: Should drug tests be required to get welfare benefits?

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    42 66.67%
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Thread: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

  1. #21
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Right, because people use drugs casually and that never shows up on a drug test
    What's with the rolling eyes. You said LARGE FACTION. The link you gave, that report, says that the folk you're talking about is not a large faction, but a small minority.

    You may want to actually read the stuff you post so you don't post something foolish.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    What's with the rolling eyes. You said LARGE FACTION. The link you gave, that report, says that the folk you're talking about is not a large faction, but a small minority.

    You may want to actually read the stuff you post so you don't post something foolish.
    You may want read my post for comprehension. I said that a large faction uses drugs and that is 100% true.
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  3. #23
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Agreed. I'd rather see no drug tests than drug tests use to throw them back on the street, but I'd rather see what you mention than no drug tests. Although ideally we'd live in a culture where there was less shame and less harsh punishment and people were more likely to admit it.

    What would we do with that information once we had it? Don't know. Our system is not currently built to be much help at all to addicts. Whatever it would be would have to be from scratch, but to me, this is a much better conversation to be having.
    And to be honest, I'm not sure what they would actually do for welfare-moms or dads who test positive for drugs..

    My birth mom is an addict. When she was pregnant with my little brother we moved to Michigan, where she had to apply for Medicaid/WIC in order to receive prenatal care (which she neglected for 7 months of the pregnancy). During her first doctor's visit, she tested positive for drugs...a few, actually. She received a "warning" that further positive results would lead to consequences. Two positive tests later and she was placed on bed rest in the hospital, with monitored visits. She stayed there for the last month of the pregnancy (can't even imagine the cost!). At no point in time did they ever even look at the fact that she was a single mom and I was only 11, or provide information or resources for drug rehab. It's like plugging a hole in a boat with bubble gum, ya know?
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  4. #24
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You may want read my post for comprehension. I said that a large faction uses drugs and that is 100% true.
    Oh I read, maybe you need to read what you wrote.

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    It is actually a great idea. There is a large faction of people that are on welfare because they can't get a job due to their dependency. Make them get sober and get a job. It isn't societies responsibility to support meth heads and stoners.
    What did you say. Stop with the dishonesty and tell me what you said. You didn't say that a large faction uses drugs. No you did not. You said "There is a large faction of people that are on welfare because they can't get a job DUE TO THEIR DEPENDENCY". See how those two statements are not equal? I can't believe that in this short amount of posts you want to engage so dishonestly in the debate to try to change what you said just a few posts ago. No, you said there are a large faction of people on welfare who are dependent upon those drugs. The link you posted said that the number on people who can be classified as dependent on drugs and/or alcohol is a SMALL MINORITY. A small minority is not a large faction as you had laid claim to at the start.

    There's nothing wrong with disagreement and opinion, but outright lying after you've been corrected and engaging in intellectually dishonest posting will not advance the argument. Please stop.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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  5. #25
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    And to be honest, I'm not sure what they would actually do for welfare-moms or dads who test positive for drugs..

    My birth mom is an addict. When she was pregnant with my little brother we moved to Michigan, where she had to apply for Medicaid/WIC in order to receive prenatal care (which she neglected for 7 months of the pregnancy). During her first doctor's visit, she tested positive for drugs...a few, actually. She received a "warning" that further positive results would lead to consequences. Two positive tests later and she was placed on bed rest in the hospital, with monitored visits. She stayed there for the last month of the pregnancy (can't even imagine the cost!). At no point in time did they ever even look at the fact that she was a single mom and I was only 11, or provide information or resources for drug rehab. It's like plugging a hole in a boat with bubble gum, ya know?
    Definitely. Unfortunately, in circumstances like that, that's really all they can do... given the current culture. A culture that has pitifully few resources for addicts, most of them out of reach anyway. Saying "stop" to an addict is like saying "stop" to a charging rhino. I'm totally not surprised it didn't work. And it's pitiful that medical professionals are still so uneducated about the issue that they say things like that.

    The whole system for dealing with addicts essentially needs to be rebuilt. And it may take a generation or so for it to do any good. Where to even begin with that is a big question. Honestly, if we're really dealing with the system as a whole rather than sticking a band-aid over a bullet hole, I think it starts with drug laws. Decriminalize and de-shame. Take the power away from the cartels. Then it goes to harm reduction and rehab facilities. Then it goes to things like welfare where there may be a sort of "add-on" for dealing with addicts (who are apparently a tiny minority of welfare recipients anyway, from what I've read of other poster's links).

    How to stop situations like yours, and your mothers? Well, doing the above should help from what I've seen of countries that are doing things like that. But can we ever totally stop it? No. Sad reality.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-05-11 at 01:03 PM.

  6. #26
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    According to the article, "although almost 20% of welfare recipients report recent use of some illicit drug during the year, only a small minority satisfy the criteria for drug or alcohol dependence." So that's a bit misleading; is the guy who smoked a joint 6 months ago really in the same category as a meth addict? And I'd be curious to know how that 20% figure compares with the population as a whole...that doesn't really sound that high to me.

    In any case, I fail to see how taking away the benefits from drug addicts will help the situation. You need to resolve the underlying problem (the addiction) before you can address the symptom (the lack of a job). A better approach would be to help addicts get treatment for their problem so that they can get their life in order.
    Last edited by Kandahar; 06-05-11 at 01:03 PM.
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    According to the article, "although almost 20% of welfare recipients report recent use of some illicit drug during the year, only a small minority satisfy the criteria for drug or alcohol dependence." So that's a bit misleading; is the guy who smoked a joint 6 months ago really in the same category as a meth addict? And I'd be curious to know how that 20% figure compares with the population as a whole...that doesn't really sound that high to me.

    In any case, I fail to see how taking away the benefits from drug addicts will help the situation. You need to resolve the underlying problem (the addiction) before you can address the symptom (the lack of a job). A better approach would be to help addicts get treatment for their problem so that they can get their life in order.
    Well since there arent any drug tests for Welfare at the moment.....thats 20% who "admitted" to drug use....... 20% who admitted the US Taxpayer pays for their drug habits.

    .........but its akin to asking the prison population who is innocent......
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  8. #28
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kandahar View Post
    According to the article, "although almost 20% of welfare recipients report recent use of some illicit drug during the year, only a small minority satisfy the criteria for drug or alcohol dependence." So that's a bit misleading; is the guy who smoked a joint 6 months ago really in the same category as a meth addict? And I'd be curious to know how that 20% figure compares with the population as a whole...that doesn't really sound that high to me.
    Half of it is marijuana. It says on page 13 that 21% have used drugs in the past year. If you eliminate marijuana, then it's 10%. It continues to say that if you were to throw off people who are dependent, you will get about 3% of welfare recipients. Yeah, 3% is really a large faction.

    Is all the money we spend on this, the larger amount of government surveillance of the people, really worth 3% of welfare recipients?
    Last edited by Ikari; 06-05-11 at 01:11 PM.
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  9. #29
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Oh I read, maybe you need to read what you wrote.



    What did you say. Stop with the dishonesty and tell me what you said. You didn't say that a large faction uses drugs. No you did not. You said "There is a large faction of people that are on welfare because they can't get a job DUE TO THEIR DEPENDENCY". See how those two statements are not equal? I can't believe that in this short amount of posts you want to engage so dishonestly in the debate to try to change what you said just a few posts ago. No, you said there are a large faction of people on welfare who are dependent upon those drugs. The link you posted said that the number on people who can be classified as dependent on drugs and/or alcohol is a SMALL MINORITY. A small minority is not a large faction as you had laid claim to at the start.

    There's nothing wrong with disagreement and opinion, but outright lying after you've been corrected and engaging in intellectually dishonest posting will not advance the argument. Please stop.
    I never lied. What part of this do you not get? If you are on drugs you can't get a job. 20% are on drugs, therefore they can't get a job because the can't/won't stop their drug use. That is dependency. When the drug use becomes more important than the necessities...that is dependency. They may or may not be physically dependent, but they are definitely socially dependent on drugs.

    Now I turn your quote back on you:

    There's nothing wrong with disagreement and opinion, but outright lying after you've been corrected and engaging in intellectually dishonest posting will not advance the argument. Please stop.
    You misrepresented my position. You are being intellectually dishonest. You are the one demonizing me for having a difference of opinion. How quick you jump on the name calling and belittling band wagon when you knew not of which you spoke.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  10. #30
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Yes, welfare is supposed to be given to people that need to to survive, it was not intended to fuel habits which lead to unproductivity.
    "I have never understood why it is "greed" to want to keep the money you have earned but not greed to want to take somebody else's money." -Thomas Sowell

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