View Poll Results: Should drug tests be required to get welfare benefits?

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  • Yes

    42 66.67%
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    21 33.33%
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Thread: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

  1. #231
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We made the decision to have this program, we acted in its creation and offering of it. Just because we made a government program does not mean we can then demand people to abdicate their rights because they choose to engage in it. The choice in the system was already made the minute we decided and acted upon the creation of a welfare state. The welfare state does not remove the restrictions placed upon government.
    What's this "we" stuff?

    You mean "they", and you mean "a majority". And the Constitution of THIS particular country was written to protect the minority from the ravages of the majority, and oh, by the way, the Welfare States is a violation of the Constitution. Therefore it's not supposed to be happening regarless.

    Whatever, since free handouts isn't a right, since contraints are already in place on their disbursement, drug testing is nothing more than another constraint.

    The government requires proof of income level, bank statements, pay slips, unemployment records, what have you. It's clearly just as big a violation of the Fourth Amendment to demand these documnts ("papers") as it is to demand a drug test ("persons"). No more so, no less so.

    Yet you accept the one but not the other.

    There's some other reason you're objecting, since whatever ever it is isn't logical.

  2. #232
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    Sorry I do feel people have a right sit at a lunch counter and be served. And I also feel people do have a right to a job that they can execute.
    1) The only lunch counter any person has a "right" to sit at is the one at the restaurant they own. If they don't own a restaurant then they have no rights to it, and, if they're not buying food, they certainly should expect to be ejected by the police as trespassers.

    2) Not one person on the planet has a "right" to a job. A job isn't something a person with skills performs because they have the skills. A job is a task that someone is willing to pay others to do for them, and the choice of the person to do the job is dependent upon the job requirements and the skills of the individual. A man specialized in making three handled family gredunzas can't reasonably expect to continue working when the market drops out and no one is buying gredunzas of any sort any more.

    What happens to the hangman when the country ends capital punishment?

  3. #233
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    What happens to the hangman when the country ends capital punishment?
    He goes to school and trains to do another job.. But in your world, he does nothing because he has no right to anything and will wind up a corpse on your door step..

    Thankfully Mayor.. Your are very much alone in your views.. You should move to another nation that shares them.. Like Iran or North Korea.. You have no business in a democracy with those views..

  4. #234
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    He goes to school and trains to do another job..
    In other words, your assertion that a man has a right to do what he's skilled to do was flat out bull****, by your own admission.

    Thank you, nothing more is required of you except an apology.

  5. #235
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    So what about the handicapped and those less fortunate?? Do conservatives ever consider them when discussing rights??
    Isn't everybody less fortunate. Is it sufficient that I have more than you (therefore you are less fortunate) for you to want the government to take from me in order to give to you?
    Why are rights involved? No one has a right to a substantial proportion of my labor for the rest of my life. That *is* slavery no matter how you dress it up.

    Governments tend toward tyranny. Automatically. Governments that believe they should take from one citizen to give to another are already tyrannical. We have, unfortunately, arrived. It is only a matter of time before show trials (already have them in the House and Senate), imprisonment for our thoughts (hate crimes), torture, and murder.

  6. #236
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Governments tend toward tyranny. Automatically.
    I never heard of this one in poli sci class.

  7. #237
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    What's this "we" stuff?
    It's our Republic. We as the People have authorized it. We have not revolted over it, we have accepted it. It is current policy and we all have choosen to work within the system to change and alter, thus we all agree to the current incarnation of the program.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    And the Constitution of THIS particular country was written to protect the minority from the ravages of the majority, and oh, by the way, the Welfare States is a violation of the Constitution. Therefore it's not supposed to be happening regarless.
    So it goes

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    Whatever, since free handouts isn't a right, since contraints are already in place on their disbursement, drug testing is nothing more than another constraint.
    The government is still restricted

    Quote Originally Posted by Mayor Snorkum View Post
    The government requires proof of income level, bank statements, pay slips, unemployment records, what have you. It's clearly just as big a violation of the Fourth Amendment to demand these documnts ("papers") as it is to demand a drug test ("persons"). No more so, no less so.

    Yet you accept the one but not the other.

    There's some other reason you're objecting, since whatever ever it is isn't logical.
    It's entirely logical. Welfare is a financial support program designed as a stop gap to allow failing families time to recover and find employment since it's cheaper to float them temporarily than it is to deal with the consequences of increased homelessness and crime. Therefore, the concerns of the system are purely financial. It is thus reasonable for the government to ask about finiancial situations such as property and income in assessing eligibility for a program designed to help those in poor financial situations. That's it. Drug use does not fall under that. If one wanted to make a stupid argument they could say "well they have to buy the drugs and it's an expense then and thus part of their finances", but as I said that would be a stupid argument. As buying and spending trends are not part of the question for welfare availablity. It's a financial program and is concerned with how much money families make and what they own. There is no need to question the individual beyond their financial situation to assess eligibility for welfare.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  8. #238
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    I never heard of this one in poli sci class.
    That's too bad, they should really be teaching the warnings of the founders. Like this one which is all too true now

    “If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy”
    -James Madison
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

  9. #239
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    It's our Republic. We as the People have authorized it. We have not revolted over it, we have accepted it. It is current policy and we all have choosen to work within the system to change and alter, thus we all agree to the current incarnation of the program.
    Just in case you missed it, the Constitution does not allow entitlement spending.

    Just in case you haven't read it, the phrase "we the people" are the first three words of the Constitution.


    There is no need to question the individual beyond their financial situation to assess eligibility for welfare.
    Asking them if they can and do spend money on drugs rather than for food is a legitimate question, and testing them to prove their veracity is no different than demanding bank statements. They're not required to provide bank statements, they're not required to take drug tests.

    They have a choice.

    What, you never heard of the word "freedom", before?

  10. #240
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    I never heard of this one in poli sci class.
    Government school?

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