View Poll Results: Should drug tests be required to get welfare benefits?

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    42 66.67%
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Thread: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

  1. #141
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If we're giving a drug user a welfare check we're subsidizing their drug habit. How do you track money to a drug dealer? Do they file income reports?
    Aside from the loaded moral point we're making here... that check still stimulates the economy. The dealer likely buys munchies or other completely useless things to society that keep the economy rolling.

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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by SE102 View Post
    Aside from the loaded moral point we're making here... that check still stimulates the economy. The dealer likely buys munchies or other completely useless things to society that keep the economy rolling.
    So that justifies the damage done by a drug user? The expense of medical treatments, imprisonments, child placements, etc. that often result from persistent use of drugs are all okay...because that welfare check we're giving them to subsidize their habits will flow into the economy eventually.
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If we're giving a drug user a welfare check we're subsidizing their drug habit. How do you track money to a drug dealer? Do they file income reports?
    No, we're not. And you don't have to track it to the drug dealer, you have to track it to food and shelter and legitmate needs. I suspect buying drugs with the money is already against the law.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, we're not. And you don't have to track it to the drug dealer, you have to track it to food and shelter and legitmate needs. I suspect buying drugs with the money is already against the law.
    It's a check. Or a debit card. Either way, cash is easily available from the funds. Pretty hard to track cash. Buying illegal drugs is illegal regardless of whether it's money you earned by working or money you received from entitlements.
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  5. #145
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    I would argue that the recipients action of seeking out government aid qualifies them to meet specific requirements. If they can be required to release income records, rent records, and social security/birth information for dependents, then asking them to submit to a drug test is no more invasive and would therefore not qualify as a violation of any right.

    As far as paying for it because it's "better" or "easier"...I disagree. Encouraging an addicted will only delay the inevitable. Another poster suggested that those who test positive be given an option to participate in rehab/education courses as a stipulation of receiving money. I have always been a proponent of specific funding through welfare (i.e. rent, utilities, transport costs) instead of free-reign spending on behalf of the recipient. If such a system were put into place it would be quite easy to eliminate the use of tax payer funds for drugs.
    Well instead of kicking people off welfare, perhaps there is a way to better serve the people while preventing against this form of fraud, as you have suggested. I think that some records may be necessary to address eligibility, but those would have to be isolated to financial records only. If you have no reasonable suspicion that the person is doing drugs, I don't see a reasonable way to use government force to enact the search.

    In the end, we all pay for a lot of things, from welfare and Medicare to subsidies for huge oil tycoons, to allowing the super rich to not list their bonuses as income, etc. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and every break is accompanied by some other share being used to fill in the gaps. Yet we're only worried about the poor people, they're the one's that need to be tested. No one else. Well I think that's bunk. All or none. And in this specific case, I'm supposed to be concerned with 3-5% of welfare recipients? Naw, not on my top list of things. Sure in a perfect world this all exists nice and cozy; but perfect doesn't exist. We must deal with the realities of the imperfect world. And in an imperfect world, if it costs us more than it saves to identify that 3-5% and kick them off welfare, it doesn't seem to me to be an entirely rational decision.

    I think your last suggestion to welfare would go well further in not only curbing this perceived problem, but also preventing excessive growth of government force.
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Boo Radley View Post
    No, we're not. And you don't have to track it to the drug dealer, you have to track it to food and shelter and legitmate needs. I suspect buying drugs with the money is already against the law.
    And how are we not subsidizing their drug habit? We're giving them money. The money is spent on drugs. Subsidizing drug habit....tada.
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Well instead of kicking people off welfare, perhaps there is a way to better serve the people while preventing against this form of fraud, as you have suggested. I think that some records may be necessary to address eligibility, but those would have to be isolated to financial records only. If you have no reasonable suspicion that the person is doing drugs, I don't see a reasonable way to use government force to enact the search.

    In the end, we all pay for a lot of things, from welfare and Medicare to subsidies for huge oil tycoons, to allowing the super rich to not list their bonuses as income, etc. There's no such thing as a free lunch, and every break is accompanied by some other share being used to fill in the gaps. Yet we're only worried about the poor people, they're the one's that need to be tested. No one else. Well I think that's bunk. All or none. And in this specific case, I'm supposed to be concerned with 3-5% of welfare recipients? Naw, not on my top list of things. Sure in a perfect world this all exists nice and cozy; but perfect doesn't exist. We must deal with the realities of the imperfect world. And in an imperfect world, if it costs us more than it saves to identify that 3-5% and kick them off welfare, it doesn't seem to me to be an entirely rational decision.

    I think your last suggestion to welfare would go well further in not only curbing this perceived problem, but also preventing excessive growth of government force.
    They're the ones asking for the government to pay for them to live. So yeah, it "targets" the poor. Then again, do jobs that require drug tests "target" the unemployed?
    "Hmmm...Can't decide if I want to watch "Four Houses" or give myself an Icy Hot pee hole enema..." - Blake Shelton


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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    They're the ones asking for the government to pay for them to live. So yeah, it "targets" the poor. Then again, do jobs that require drug tests "target" the unemployed?
    We're the ones who offered to pay. I don't see how choosing to participate in an offered social program should ever come at the expense of our rights.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    We're the ones who offered to pay. I don't see how choosing to participate in an offered social program should ever come at the expense of our rights.
    It's an offered social program to help those incapable of currently helping themselves. It isn't money for whoever wants it. You have to apply and seek approval, meet qualifications to receive the money. Any qualification they want to put in place that does not discriminate on the basis of race, sex, sexual orientation, age, or religion is completely justified.
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    And how are we not subsidizing their drug habit? We're giving them money. The money is spent on drugs. Subsidizing drug habit....tada.
    No, the money is spent on food and shelter. You ahve to prove it is spent on drugs, which is already against the law, isn't it?

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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