View Poll Results: Should drug tests be required to get welfare benefits?

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    42 66.67%
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    21 33.33%
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Thread: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

  1. #121
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Is there any way I can vote "yes" 100 more times?
    Last edited by PzKfW IVe; 06-06-11 at 02:40 PM.

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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I would like you to think like a human. You are making improper assumptions that their drug use is at fault. When if fact, it could very well not be. Let's say that I was in a job that due to the economic downturn got eliminated. I'm on welfare/unemployment because the economy is tough and it's taking a while to even find employment (we're near 9% still, we had gotten close to 10%). During my time off work, a buddy offers me a joint; I smoke it. Is my smoking of that joint making me not get a job? No. If within a year I was given the survey and they asked if I used drugs in the past year, I would answer yes as I had a joint. But am I unemployed because of the drugs? Can I not find a job because of the drugs? No.

    Humans are capable of higher order thought, it's time to employ it. What you are saying is not supported by your source. In fact, your source says the EXACT OPPOSITE. People who are dependent upon drugs (what you keep claiming), is a small minority. It is not the 20% you continually and dishonestly keep trying to claim.
    Nice, bookend your fallacy with personal attacks.

    To answer your hypothetical....yes, if you smoked one joint one time that would be a large part of the reason why you didn't get another job. It shows a lack of understanding and awareness of consequences for your actions. That one joint can cause you to fail a drug test up to 30 days after. You, being unemployed and dumb enough to eliminate any chance at another job for the next 30 days shows a level of dependency on the drug. The very scenario itself screams dependency.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  3. #123
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    Nice, bookend your fallacy with personal attacks.

    To answer your hypothetical....yes, if you smoked one joint one time that would be a large part of the reason why you didn't get another job. It shows a lack of understanding and awareness of consequences for your actions. That one joint can cause you to fail a drug test up to 30 days after. You, being unemployed and dumb enough to eliminate any chance at another job for the next 30 days shows a level of dependency on the drug. The very scenario itself screams dependency.
    OK. So now I know where you are at with critical thinking and assumptions. Not only did the link you post directly conflict with the conclusion you want to draw; but you cannot keep straight emotion from fact and fly off the handle when you hear "drugs". One joint would not impair me beyond an ability to get a job. In fact, if I smoke one joint and had a pee test, there are all sorts of things to take to cover it as well. Thought out and taken care of. It will not serve as the hurdle to a new job. Nor will it permanently prevent me from getting a new job. The fact you would call it dependency illustrates that you have no real scientific and rational idea of what dependency really is.
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  4. #124
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    OK. So now I know where you are at with critical thinking and assumptions. Not only did the link you post directly conflict with the conclusion you want to draw; but you cannot keep straight emotion from fact and fly off the handle when you hear "drugs". One joint would not impair me beyond an ability to get a job. In fact, if I smoke one joint and had a pee test, there are all sorts of things to take to cover it as well. Thought out and taken care of. It will not serve as the hurdle to a new job. Nor will it permanently prevent me from getting a new job. The fact you would call it dependency illustrates that you have no real scientific and rational idea of what dependency really is.
    You, Ms. Pot, do a great job of calling the kettle black *sigh* and you have no real understanding of the devastating effects of drug use. Let me put it this way, there is no safe, inconsequential means of getting high.

    You try so desperately to create a scenario that paints the drug abuser as a descent, honest person that you fail to account for the possibility that others might see them differently.

    I recently had a random drug test for work. They did three tests and the testing center told me this is the new normal...I'd never seen it before. I pee'd in a cup (that's normal). Then, they swabbed my mouth (new). Then, they plucked a piece of hair (new). Some drugs can be beat in the urine test, some in the mouth but none of them beat all three. You can't smoke anything and get a job now. It just won't happen.

    Now, as I said before, if you are offered a drug one time and you can't turn it down even though you know the consequences that shows a level of dependency (or maybe stupidity, I might grant you that). But let's not pretend that any more than a small small itty bitty percentage of drug abusers just had one joint in a year...that's a grand assumption that doesn't pass the smell test.
    Last edited by ksu_aviator; 06-06-11 at 05:09 PM.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  5. #125
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    You, Ms. Pot, do a great job of calling the kettle black *sigh* and you have no real understanding of the devastating effects of drug use. Let me put it this way, there is no safe, inconsequential means of getting high.

    You try so desperately to create a scenario that paints the drug abuser as a descent, honest person that you fail to account for the possibility that others might see them differently.

    I recently had a random drug test for work. They did three tests and the testing center told me this is the new normal...I'd never seen it before. I pee'd in a cup (that's normal). Then, they swabbed my mouth (new). Then, they plucked a piece of hair (new). Some drugs can be beat in the urine test, some in the mouth but none of them beat all three. You can't smoke anything and get a job now. It just won't happen.

    Now, as I said before, if you are offered a drug one time and you can't turn it down even though you know the consequences that shows a level of dependency (or maybe stupidity, I might grant you that). But let's not pretend that any more than a small small itty bitty percentage of drug abusers just had one joint in a year...that's a grand assumption that doesn't pass the smell test.
    There certainly are jobs that don't require drug tests. You try so desperately to create scenarios that paints the drug user as a lazy incompetent who can't do anything for themselves or hold down a job. But I personally know quite a few people who use various drugs and are quite productive. It's about quantity and effect. One can use certain drugs reasonably and have little to no impact on their abilities. Other drugs are worse and in large quantities all produce negative side effects. Not everyone who uses drugs on occasion is an addict or dependent upon the drug.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
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  6. #126
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    There certainly are jobs that don't require drug tests. You try so desperately to create scenarios that paints the drug user as a lazy incompetent who can't do anything for themselves or hold down a job. But I personally know quite a few people who use various drugs and are quite productive. It's about quantity and effect. One can use certain drugs reasonably and have little to no impact on their abilities. Other drugs are worse and in large quantities all produce negative side effects. Not everyone who uses drugs on occasion is an addict or dependent upon the drug.
    We aren't talking about people who can hold a job. We are talking about people who can't. Those people that don't have the will power to turn down drugs when there is a clear possibility that it will cause them to be turned down for a next job have a problem...even if it is a mild problem.
    You, my brothers and sisters, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the flesh; rather, serve one another humbly in love.For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

  7. #127
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    We aren't talking about people who can hold a job. We are talking about people who can't. Those people that don't have the will power to turn down drugs when there is a clear possibility that it will cause them to be turned down for a next job have a problem...even if it is a mild problem.
    Not sure your premise is accurate. It certainly depends on the drug and the drug problem an individual has. There are drug users who do hold down jobs. This is just a fact. So, testing psotitive is not in and of itself a sign the person can't hold a job.

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  8. #128
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Since the thread is about people who can't or won't or aren't trying to hold down a job (i.e. welfare recipients) maybe we can discuss the merits of that position. Should tax payers subsized the purchase of illegal drugs by granting welfare money to a recipient who tests positive?
    Last edited by tessaesque; 06-06-11 at 05:42 PM.
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  9. #129
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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by ksu_aviator View Post
    We aren't talking about people who can hold a job. We are talking about people who can't. Those people that don't have the will power to turn down drugs when there is a clear possibility that it will cause them to be turned down for a next job have a problem...even if it is a mild problem.
    Yes, but you make the assumption that anyone on welfare who may have used drugs within the past year is incapable of holding down a job. Which is not correct, some are victims of circumstance and poor economics. The study you listed, which goes through and painstakingly identifies dependency states that those on welfare who are actually dependent upon their drug is a small minority.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Should Drug Tests Be Required to Get Welfare Benefits?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Since the thread is about people who can't or won't or aren't trying to hold down a job (i.e. welfare recipients) maybe we can discuss the merits of that position. Sound tax payers subsized the purchase of illegal drugs by granting welfare money to a recipient who tests positive?
    You're going to pay for them somehow, either through hospitalization or jail or homeless shelter.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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