View Poll Results: Do you support Keynesian economics?

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Thread: Do you support Keynesian economics?

  1. #61
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    Tax cuts without corresponding spending cuts for the government quite often have the same stimulative effect as when a government increases spending.

    It is the spending over and above what normal incomes would support that is stimulative. Whether the money for the extra savings come from savings or from debt, it is stimulative, it doesnt matter if it is the government or private individuals doing the spending.

    As for which is more effective of course is determined by what is done with the extra money put into the economy. Spent on infrustructure, it can provide both a short term and a long term boost to the economy, spent on foreign non durable goods, it will have less of an effect on that countries economy, put into a savings account or used to pay down debt, it will have no effect on the short term economic activity
    Now, this is Keynesian. I don't think ignoring Keynesian theory because of the track record is correct. Governments (politicians) tend to do whats best in the short term (the election cycle), so of course they're going to disregard huge parts of Keynesian theory, and plow on ahead. Austrian theory also has the same problem, it isn't put in place correctly. As we couldn't really expect to see either put in perfectly, a mix of both is essential.

    I agree with the Austrians that you can't just look at labor and goods and everything as discrete; there are a lot of marginal values, and when dealing with people especially, you're bound to be imprecise. If you take elements of Austrian theory, along with Keynesian theory, you get a winning formula (and the right mixture keeps changing with the times).
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  2. #62
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by repeter View Post
    Now, this is Keynesian. I don't think ignoring Keynesian theory because of the track record is correct. Governments (politicians) tend to do whats best in the short term (the election cycle), so of course they're going to disregard huge parts of Keynesian theory, and plow on ahead. Austrian theory also has the same problem, it isn't put in place correctly. As we couldn't really expect to see either put in perfectly, a mix of both is essential.

    I agree with the Austrians that you can't just look at labor and goods and everything as discrete; there are a lot of marginal values, and when dealing with people especially, you're bound to be imprecise. If you take elements of Austrian theory, along with Keynesian theory, you get a winning formula (and the right mixture keeps changing with the times).
    I agree,

    Keynesian economics works well at a high level (federal government) if followed correctly regarding surplus's and deficiets (that governments should tend to run a surplus), but when it comes to monetary policy and economics regarding the majority of economic spending austrian can work well. The main issue with austrian economics is that it is purely an economic theory totally disregarding the sociological impacts of such policies
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  3. #63
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by Lord Tammerlain View Post
    The main issue with austrian economics is that it is purely an economic theory totally disregarding the sociological impacts of such policies
    And in an ideal theory, that's where Keynesian stimulus could be applied. It doesn't make perfect economic sense to prevent millions from dying of starvation, but it does from a practical sense. This stuff is common sense, it astounds me that so many people are so absolute.
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  4. #64
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by samsmart View Post
    Of those countries, how much of their economy was invested into the American economy?
    CPwill's pushing that steaming pile of dog **** here too?

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/us-ele...post1059610154

    That study is so ridiculous flawed that I'm amazed Harvard let them put it out with their name on it.
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    Perhaps the most compelling research on this subject is a very recent study by my colleagues Alberto Alesina and Silvia Ardagna at Harvard. They used data from the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development to identify every major fiscal stimulus adopted by the 30 OECD countries between 1970 and 2007. Alesina and Ardagna then separated those plans that were in fact followed by robust economic growth from those that were not, and compared their characteristics. They found that the stimulus packages that appeared to be successful had cut business and income taxes, while those that evidently did not succeed had increased government spending and transfer payments....[/i][/indent
    DO NOT CITE STUDIES YOU HAVE NOT READ

    That study is so flawed it's ridiculous that they put it out. For economists, they basically failed to do their job. When a study explicitly states that no economic data other then tax cuts and spending was discussed, it should be immediately be rejected.

    Your asinine study would say the Dutch finding of oil had no impact on their economy since it wasn't a tax cut or spending cuts. Does the term "DUTCH DISEASE" mean anything to you?
    Your stupid study would say the internet had no impact upon the economy of the US between 1996-2001 because it wasn't a tax cut or spending cuts.
    Your steaming pile of dog **** study would say that hydrocarbons play no role in the economy of Saudi Arabia due to not being a tax cut or spending cuts.
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  6. #66
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    To the people that think business would run a lot better without regulation?? You are right.. They would.. Any guess how long you and your family would live after that??

    Do you like the fact that clean drinkable water is on tap in your home?? I am sure it would cost a lot less if they didn't clean the water, filter it, process it, and other stuff..

    Do you like going to a restaurant knowing that the food you will be served is not spoiled, stale, or rotting?? Cost money for a resaurant to run a freezer.. Would you like to find hair in your food?? Maybe bones from some other animal??

    What about the food at the grocery store?? Again cost money to have all those freezers to keep things fresh.. Packaging is a real pain in the ass.. Especially those tamper proof things?? Do you like know that someone didn't lace your mayo with some poison??

    Sure.. Regulations are not all that nice to companies.. But they are nice for us.. I happen to like knowing that my food is safe.. That my hospital has to observe certian standards in care and cleanliness.. I like know that cooks must wear hats or a hair net, wash their hands frequently..

    Regulations are needed and required.. And in some areas we simply don't have enough.. If you think for one minute that companies will just do all this stuff to be nice.. You are smoking some serious crack or you are simply beyond stupid..

    Banks would lure people in with a low interest credit card, then about a year or so send them a letter stating.. 'After review of your credit score, we will be increasing your intrest rate to xx%' Even though your credit hasn't changed and you were never late on a single payment to this bank.. It was entrapment and it made the banks billions.. Thankfully this practice is now illegal.. Yes.. Some people can and did opt out of the intrest hike, but lost the credit card and just had to pay the debt.. Many people didn't and paid the higher interest..

    So you tell me?? What about airlines?? Do they need regulations?? I am sure plane tickets would be much cheaper if planes weren't manufactered to such standards?? Cars?? No more air bags.. No more seat belts.. No more millions spend on crash testing..

    Wow!! You people are really smart!! If you want to live in a regulations free zone.. Try Africa.. We need regulations.. Lots of them!!

  7. #67
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by obvious Child View Post
    DO NOT CITE STUDIES YOU HAVE NOT READ

    That study is so flawed it's ridiculous that they put it out. For economists, they basically failed to do their job. When a study explicitly states that no economic data other then tax cuts and spending was discussed, it should be immediately be rejected.
    not at all; the high incidence of such attempts effectively allows for individual outliers created by unique outside factors. you're just upset because your stupid ass ideas don't work in real life.

  8. #68
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    not at all; the high incidence of such attempts effectively allows for individual outliers created by unique outside factors.
    That was nonsensical. You just called a completely external rise in commodity prices due to tax cuts. That's not intelligent.

    The explicitly rejecting of external factors suggests that the study is effectively worthless. The idiotic logic of the study would declare that dutch diease does not exist as an impact on an economy because it's not a fiscal issue. That's 100% certified stupidity.

    Please take more time to form coherent thoughts.

    you're just upset because your stupid ass ideas don't work in real life.
    I'm not the one citing a study which requires economic data to exist in a vaccuum. You are.

    Your dumb ass study argues that commodity exports play no role in economic growth. What kind of retarded **** is that?

    You don't have a rebuttal because you don't have an argument. To defend your study would be to defend the arguement that non-fiscal factors play a large role. Which would immediately destroy your own study. Hence why you're resorting to that rather worthless reply.
    "If your opponent is of choleric temperament, seek to irritate him." - Sun Tzu

  9. #69
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    Quote Originally Posted by DemonMyst View Post
    To the people that think business would run a lot better without regulation?? You are right.. They would.. Any guess how long you and your family would live after that??

    Do you like the fact that clean drinkable water is on tap in your home?? I am sure it would cost a lot less if they didn't clean the water, filter it, process it, and other stuff..

    Do you like going to a restaurant knowing that the food you will be served is not spoiled, stale, or rotting?? Cost money for a resaurant to run a freezer.. Would you like to find hair in your food?? Maybe bones from some other animal??

    What about the food at the grocery store?? Again cost money to have all those freezers to keep things fresh.. Packaging is a real pain in the ass.. Especially those tamper proof things?? Do you like know that someone didn't lace your mayo with some poison??

    Sure.. Regulations are not all that nice to companies.. But they are nice for us.. I happen to like knowing that my food is safe.. That my hospital has to observe certian standards in care and cleanliness.. I like know that cooks must wear hats or a hair net, wash their hands frequently..

    Regulations are needed and required.. And in some areas we simply don't have enough.. If you think for one minute that companies will just do all this stuff to be nice.. You are smoking some serious crack or you are simply beyond stupid..

    Banks would lure people in with a low interest credit card, then about a year or so send them a letter stating.. 'After review of your credit score, we will be increasing your intrest rate to xx%' Even though your credit hasn't changed and you were never late on a single payment to this bank.. It was entrapment and it made the banks billions.. Thankfully this practice is now illegal.. Yes.. Some people can and did opt out of the intrest hike, but lost the credit card and just had to pay the debt.. Many people didn't and paid the higher interest..

    So you tell me?? What about airlines?? Do they need regulations?? I am sure plane tickets would be much cheaper if planes weren't manufactered to such standards?? Cars?? No more air bags.. No more seat belts.. No more millions spend on crash testing..

    Wow!! You people are really smart!! If you want to live in a regulations free zone.. Try Africa.. We need regulations.. Lots of them!!
    Wow, you really have no clue, do you? Companies exist to serve their customers. If they don't serve their customers properly, they go out of business and/or get sued.

    If you think government exists to protect us from companies, that's also totally wrong. Government regulations exist to make it more difficult for small businesses to compete with the giants because of all the red tape and extra costs involved in starting up a business.

    What research have you actually done to back up your position? Any?

    Do you work for a company? Would you say that your company tries to screw its customers?

    Governments forcing companies to act a certain way is useless, even when it's safety related. If an airline, for example, had a plane go down because of a poor safety inspection, the company would have a huge mess on their hands. They don't need to be fined on top of that because they'd already be in a helluva lotta trouble with their customers. "What? Delta's plane crashed because of a poor safety inspection?! Screw that, I'm flying Southwest!"

    The same goes for any other service or product, including energy and water. Do you think the water company is out to NOT screw its customers just because it's owned by the government? If anything, they're more inefficient because they don't have any competition. As you should've learned from economics 101, competition is the key to efficiency and lower prices. When the government has a monopoly on an industry, it might as well be just as bad as a monopoly by a private company. They care less about customer service because they know consumers don't have any other options. If it's a necessary service (or virtually necessary, as I guess you could survive without water), the consumers have no choice but to give that company their money. And the company can charge whatever they want.

    Consumers are the ultimate driving force in the economy and they determine where all of the money goes. Because of the abundance of a country like America, the multiple options we have when going out to buy anything is tremendous. To argue that companies would prefer to screw their customers rather than win them over with great customer service, quality products, and cheap prices is utterly ridiculous and goes against all logic.
    Last edited by GreatMisdirect; 07-08-11 at 04:31 AM.
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  10. #70
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    Re: Do you support Keynesian economics?

    I don't know. Someone recommend me some books please.

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