View Poll Results: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

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Thread: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

  1. #71
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    OOOOOOH I get you

    I agree but "I" stated earlier that civil rights would be tough to see through to the end, I just think this can be argued as plain old discrimination and unfair practices.
    I don't agree that it is discrimination or unfair either. Its just employers trying to automate hiring a bit and reduce costs and having to apply online is a side effect. Honestly though, the best way to remedy something like this would be to add a few kiosks to the local unemployment office.

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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    Generally when one raises a civil rights issue, I tend to think of whether this particular problem ties into a protected class or not. If not, while it is still an issue, it is not a civil rights issue.



    Why does it have to be absolute? Surely statistical evidence showing a disadvantage from one socio-economic class to another, is enough to recognize that a problem exists. (not that I have such evidence, but I just don't see why it should be absolute before it is a problem)
    The point is, this guy is arguing that employers shouldn't be allowed to limit their application process to internet only because people cannot access the internet. If they absolutely cannot acess the internet, there is a legitmate problem. If they can access the internet, but it's slightly inconvenient, there isn't a problem.

    It's inconvenient for me to print out paperwork I need to fill out at home because I don't own a printer. But I load it on a flash drive and go up to kinkos, where I have to pay to print the documents. Internet access for the unemployed is available at the very same place they would go to apply for unemployment benefits. It is also available at libraries and countless other locales...for free.

    My contention is that unless there is an absolute, we don't have an issue. He's stating that it's a fact that people cannot access the internet. The implication for justifying e-applications being a civil rights violation is solely based in the fact that they absolutely cannot access the internet.
    Last edited by tessaesque; 06-03-11 at 04:25 PM.
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  3. #73
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    No, prove that some people absolutely cannot access the internet to apply for a job, under any circumstances. Beacuse that's what you're claiming. Prove what you're claiming. Don't deflect because you typed yourself into a corner.
    I didn't type myself into any corner at all you are desperately trying to support your argument and can't.
    Hell earlier people were saying how some don't even have typewriter access to draft a resume now all of a sudden everyone has internet access? that simply absurd LMAO

    also I never said "under any circumstances" those could be anything. I could show you proof and you could simply say, that person could come over your house to use the internet. Im not playing silly games im living in reality
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    I didn't type myself into any corner at all you are desperately trying to support your argument and can't.
    Hell earlier people were saying how some don't even have typewriter access to draft a resume now all of a sudden everyone has internet access? that simply absurd LMAO

    also I never said "under any circumstances" those could be anything. I could show you proof and you could simply say, that person could come over your house to use the internet. Im not playing silly games im living in reality
    Proof would suggest that they couldn't come to my house, so how could I use that argument? You either phrased things poorly (true), or misrepresented yourself (who knows). The fact is that not all employers require on-line applications. The fact is that applying online does not discriminate based on sexual orientation, race, religion, or disability. The fact is that employers can require anything they want of applicants at any point in the application process, as long as they do not discriminate on the issues listed above. The fact is, you cannot prove that any single person could never access the internet to apply for a job if they felt so compelled.

    Those are facts. Your statement was not. I don't have to support any argument, yours is the one in question.
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  5. #75
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    The point is, this guy is arguing that employers shouldn't be allowed to limit there application process to internet only because people cannot access the internet. If they absolutely cannot acess the internet, there is a legitmate problem. If they can access the internet, but it's slightly inconvenient, there isn't a problem.

    It's inconvenient for me to print out paperwork I need to fill out at home because I don't own a printer. But I load it on a flash drive and go up to kinkos, where I have to pay to print the documents. Internet access for the unemployed is available at the very same place they would go to apply for unemployment benefits. It is also available at libraries and countless other locals...for free.

    My contention is that unless there is an absolute, we don't have an issue. He's stating that it's a fact that people cannot access the internet. The implication for justifying e-applications being a civil rights violation is solely based in the fact that they absolutely cannot access the internet.
    I think it depends on the amount of trouble finding a computer is. If it is not something readily available, then their ability to search and apply for jobs may be reduced, meaning fewer jobs applied for per day, possibly leading to a longer time unemployed. For example, if the nearest available computer is at the unemployment office or library and there is a waiting period or a person has to make an appointment. If a person is using their friend's computer, they may not be able to use it as long as they need to do apply for the maximum number of jobs they could apply to in that particular day. Its in this sort of dynamic where I see the problem. Its less a matter of willpower as you imply and more of a matter that life is complex and there is a lot of small inefficiencies in our day that can add up quickly, that exist no matter the size of our balls. Those inefficiencies do end up having a public cost, such as in extended unemployment.

    Therefore while absolutely not being able to apply is an obvious problem, the reduced ability to job hunt is also a problem.
    Last edited by tacomancer; 06-03-11 at 04:31 PM.

  6. #76
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    no your making up excuses that everyone can, when they in fact cant. Also many that can, cant do it in a timely fashion. Thats just the reality of things.
    Then not all jobs are available to everyone.
    If someone can not find the motivation to find a computer to apply for a job, I would not want them working for me.
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  7. #77
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't agree that it is discrimination or unfair either. Its just employers trying to automate hiring a bit and reduce costs and having to apply online is a side effect. Honestly though, the best way to remedy something like this would be to add a few kiosks to the local unemployment office.
    Problem already solved.
    The local unemployment office has these and offers help creating resumes and applying for jobs.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  8. #78
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I think it depends on the amount of trouble finding a computer is. If it is not something readily available, then their ability to search and apply for jobs may be reduced, meaning fewer jobs applied for per day, possibly leading to a longer time unemployed. For example, if the nearest available computer is at the unemployment office or library and there is a waiting period or a person has to make an appointment. If a person is using their friend's computer, they may not be able to use it as long as they need to do apply for the maximum number of jobs they could apply to in that particular day. Its in this sort of dynamic where I see the problem. Its less a matter of willpower as you imply and more of a matter that life is complex and there is a lot of small inefficiencies in our day that can add up quickly, that exist no matter the size of our balls. Those inefficiencies do end up having a public cost, such as in extended unemployment.

    Therefore while absolutely not being able to apply is an obvious problem, the reduced ability to job hunt is also a problem.
    If every employer only allowed e-applications, that would be an issue. Most do not.
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  9. #79
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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    If every employer only allowed e-applications, that would be an issue. Most do not.
    Again, its a dynamic, not an either/or situation.

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    Re: You Must Apply Online: Is This a Violation of Civil Rights?

    Quote Originally Posted by megaprogman View Post
    I don't agree that it is discrimination or unfair either. Its just employers trying to automate hiring a bit and reduce costs and having to apply online is a side effect. Honestly though, the best way to remedy something like this would be to add a few kiosks to the local unemployment office.


    My company did it and we didnt make it the burden of the applicant, it decreased hard-copies quite a bit but we still accept hard-copies so we arent guilty of denying employment for dumb unrelated reasons.

    kiosks to the local unemployment office is great but that still doesnt give everyone easy access.

    My point is if one applicant is denied access for something they do not need to perform at the job it seems wrong.

    Maybe in THIS case im just over thinking and using to much common sense and caring to much LOL
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