View Poll Results: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

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    5 62.50%
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Thread: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

  1. #11
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    It gets complicated. I have, and have read, about half of his collected papers. This was news to me so I looked at Wikipedia:

    He and Madison had a lifelong exchange of letters. Not one time can I recall either of them demanding increased taxes on the wealthy in order to give handouts to those who will not work.
    I'm aware that the modern Democratic Party is nothing like the historical one, the point of my post was to point out the stupidity in the claim tha the "entire foundation and history of the Democrat Party " was built on welfare.

    But if you read further through the wiki article:
    Democratic-Republicans split over the choice of a successor to President James Monroe, and the party faction that supported many of the old Jeffersonian principles, led by Andrew Jackson and Martin Van Buren, became the Democratic Party.
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    Someone's ignorant of history.

    Oh, and Thomas Jefferson founded the Democratic Party, just thought I'd point that out.
    The Party TJ founded.......is not the Democrat Party of today.

    While the labels may remain the same........that is where the commonalities begin and end. If TJ were alive today.......he would have zero support for what todays Democrat Party has become.........a collection of tyrants, wanna be dictators, and statists.
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm aware that the modern Democratic Party is nothing like the historical one, the point of my post was to point out the stupidity in the claim tha the "entire foundation and history of the Democrat Party " was built on welfare.

    But if you read further through the wiki article:
    The entire foundation and history of today's Democrat party is built upon the two words--General Welfare.......

    ........its why NOTHING proposed by today's Democrat party can be found anywhere in the Constitution. And without the LSD enduced interpretation of "Provide for the General Welfare"......the Democrat Party and Nanny State of today would not exist.
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    I'm aware that the modern Democratic Party is nothing like the historical one, the point of my post was to point out the stupidity in the claim tha the "entire foundation and history of the Democrat Party " was built on welfare.

    But if you read further through the wiki article:
    I have Jefferson's and Madison's collected writings. Jefferson's are easier to read. Madison's are much harder. He abbreviates more, as was the custom of the time.

    The Democrats might have stood for something once. But it has been a very long time since it was anything of value to the American way of life and politics.

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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Ron Paul on the General Welfare Clause | Cato @ Liberty

    Ron Paul on the General Welfare Clause

    One does not have to agree with everything Paul has said or stood for over the years to grant that he has a point, and a very important one. It’s a mark of how widespread our constitutional misunderstanding is that so many Americans take it for granted, at least until the Tea Party came along, that most of what the federal government does today is constitutional.

    In a nutshell, the Constitution was written and ratified to both authorize and limit the government created through it. It was designed to do the latter not through the Bill of Rights — that was an afterthought, added two years later — but through the doctrine of enumerated powers. Article I, section 8, grants the Congress only 18 powers. Nothing for education, or retirement security, or health care: Those responsibilities were left to the states or to the people, as the Tenth Amendment makes clear.

    Indeed, as was often asked: What was the point of enumerating the 17 other powers if Congress could do anything it wanted under this single power? The Framers could have stopped right there. They didn’t because they meant for Congress to have only certain limited powers, each one enumerated in Article I, section 8. And taxing for the general welfare limited Congress even further by precluding it from providing for special parties or interests.

    Some, who have not denied the necessity of the power of taxation, have grounded a very fierce attack against the Constitution, on the language in which it is defined. It has been urged and echoed, that the power “to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts, and excises, to pay the debts, and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States,” amounts to an unlimited commission to exercise every power which may be alleged to be necessary for the common defense or general welfare. No stronger proof could be given of the distress under which these writers labor for objections, than their stooping to such a misconstruction…. Had no other enumeration or definition of the powers of the Congress been found in the Constitution, than the general expressions just cited, the authors of the objection might have had some color for it…. But what color can the objection have, when a specification of the objects alluded to by these general terms immediately follows, and is not even separated by a longer pause than a semicolon?

    --James Madison--Founder--Father of the Constitution--Hater of Liberals--Great American
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  6. #16
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    I have Jefferson's and Madison's collected writings. Jefferson's are easier to read. Madison's are much harder. He abbreviates more, as was the custom of the time.

    The Democrats might have stood for something once. But it has been a very long time since it was anything of value to the American way of life and politics.
    I don't think the entire mess in which we now find our Republic can be solely blamed upon the Democrats. There's another party that could do something when they teeter-totter into power; but instead maintain the status quo. There's no doubt that the founders had many words of wisdom which we do not heed at this time. I think Madison said something that was scary true.

    “If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy”
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    Last edited by Ikari; 06-10-11 at 12:06 PM.
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    I don't think the entire mess in which we now find our Republic can be solely blamed upon the Democrats.
    The entire mess can be placed on Statists....wether its Rhinos, or every Democrat in Washington.

    There's another party that could do something when they teeter-totter into power; but instead maintain the status quo. There's no doubt that the founders had many words of wisdom which we do not heed at this time. I think Madison said something that was scary true.
    A government of, by, and for a single phrase........is not easily reversed......
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  8. #18
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Badmutha View Post
    A government of, by, and for a single phrase........is not easily reversed.......
    Yeah, but some attempts would be nice. Neither party makes even the attempt. They both keep pushing and pushing down the same road of bloated government and consolidated power against the People.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    Yeah, but some attempts would be nice. Neither party makes even the attempt. They both keep pushing and pushing down the same road of bloated government and consolidated power against the People.
    Republicans are guilty of this, albeit a voting public now (D)ependent upon government has made their complicitousness an easy decison........

    ........with that said......the Democrat party of today has never and will never do anything that reduces the size or power of government.......like all tyrants.....they love the idea of government by a single phrase.
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  10. #20
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    Re: Has the entire instrument of Government been reduced to a single phrase?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    The Kenyan-Irish tyrant? What?
    Yeah, I was with him until that part. Otherwise great post though.
    Last edited by Spartacus FPV; 06-10-11 at 12:28 PM.
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