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Is Sarah Palin's use of the American flag a breach of federal law?

Is Sarah Palin's use of the flag breaking the law?

  • YES! Fine her! Throw her in jail!

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Maybe...it seems disrespectful.

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • Really? This is what we're talking about?

    Votes: 41 89.1%
  • Total voters
    46
mertex said:
That's funny, it wasn't too long ago conservatives were claiming Obama's logo resembled some ME crescent. So, which is it, the American flag or some Muslim crescent? Or, does it change to satisfy the whims of conservatives?

Right-wing media link new agency logo to Obama's, Pepsi's, Iran's, Islamic Crescent | Media Matters for America
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Not 'this' conservative.

Whovian said:
Second, the flag is not supposed to be on anything temporary or disposable. Stamps are most certainly temporary. When you get a letter, do you keep the envelope? ALL of them, all the time? Or, like most people, do you throw it away? If it has a flag stamp, then you're violating the letter of the US Code again.
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mertex said:
And you have a link to the law that specifically says that? Because I looked up the flag code and apparently it is lax.
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You apparently missed this part...
Flag Code
i.The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in any manner whatsoever. It should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary use and discard.

Whovian said:
My point is that all these things are stupid, and the code should be changed to reflect that a patriotic t shirt, or mural of a flag on the side of a building, or a flag stamp, are NOT unpatriotic or disrespectful to the flag.
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mertex said:
They actually are disrespectful of the flag, but they have been tolerated for so long, nobody really cares anymore. But, if some Democrat were parading around on some circus tour, I'm sure there would be plenty of complaints from the right that the flag was being disrespected. But, being that it is Sarah Palin, nobody really gives a darn.
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Rgiht. Everyone in the media is protecting Palin, and would jump all over a Dem :rolleyes:
 
According to the letter of 'Flag Code...
United States Code: Title 4,8. Respect for flag | LII / Legal Information Institute
The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
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...these are disrespectful displays of the American flag...
Superbowl flag display:
Superbowl_flag.png


Veterans Day parade flag display:
alg_veterans_parade_flag.jpg


Inaugural parade for President Bush, flag display:
scr_200101221a_hr.jpg



Some people are too concerned with the 'letter' of the lae, and ignore the 'heart' of the law.
 
Whovian said:
Some people are too concerned with the 'letter' of the lae, and ignore the 'heart' of the law.
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The "heart" of the law is to treat the flag with the dignity it deserves. You accomplish this by following the rules. You don't accomplish this by way of the hippy-dippy no-rules do-as-thou-wilt nonsense like you are advocating. Willfully refusing to follow appropriate customs because you personally feel like you "know better" is the very definition of disrespect. If you don't like the rules, change them the lawful way. Otherwise, just man up and admit when you are violating them.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
The "heart" of the law is to treat the flag with the dignity it deserves. You accomplish this by following the rules. You don't accomplish this by way of the hippy-dippy no-rules do-as-thou-wilt nonsense like you are advocating. Willfully refusing to follow appropriate customs because you personally feel like you "know better" is the very definition of disrespect. If you don't like the rules, change them the lawful way. Otherwise, just man up and admit when you are violating them.
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So you believe that the flag display during the Superbowl, Veterans Day Parade, and the Bush inaugural parade were all disrespectful to the flag then?
 
USFlag.org: A website dedicated to the Flag of the United States of America - Flag Etiquette

The flag should never be dipped to any person or thing. It is flown upside down only as a distress signal.
The flag should not be used as a drapery, or for covering a speakers desk, draping a platform, or for any decoration in general. Bunting of blue, white and red stripes is available for these purposes. The blue stripe of the bunting should be on the top.
The flag should never be used for any advertising purpose. It should not be embroidered, printed or otherwise impressed on such articles as cushions, handkerchiefs, napkins, boxes, or anything intended to be discarded after temporary use. Advertising signs should not be attached to the staff or halyard
The flag should not be used as part of a costume or athletic uniform, except that a flag patch may be used on the uniform of military personnel, fireman, policeman and members of patriotic organizations.
The flag should never have placed on it, or attached to it, any mark, insignia, letter, word, number, figure, or drawing of any kind.
The flag should never be used as a receptacle for receiving, holding, carrying, or delivering anything.
When the flag is lowered, no part of it should touch the ground or any other object; it should be received by waiting hands and arms. To store the flag it should be folded neatly and ceremoniously.
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This 2nd link is good - gives real examples of violations or *of not violations* that were controversial moments:
Flag Rules and Regulations
American Flag Wall of Shame

From this 2nd link:
May 31, 2011. MSNBC's Martin Bashir criticized Sarah Palin for having her bus show an American flag and accused her of a possible breach of federal law, saying that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes. There can be no breach, as the Flag Code is only advisory. There is a long unchallenged tradition of politicians using the flag in their campaigns. The partial flag on her bus is recognizable as a flag, so does constitute a US flag. Bashir is correct that the Flag Code states that the flag should never be used for advertising purposes.
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Bush stood on a flag
Bush and Palin signed one
Obama grafittied one and during his campaign they were discarded on the gorund like confetti

Shame shame on everyone.

But none of this is a 'law' of any type - just a guideline of respect.
 
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Aunt Spiker said:
This 2nd link is good - gives real examples of violations or *of not violations* that were controversial moments:
Flag Rules and Regulations
American Flag Wall of Shame
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I love that site. It's a real wake-up call. It's a must read for anybody who doesn't truly understand flag code.

Speaking of which, I've noticed a lot of people here claim that flag code is out of date or should be changed. If that is true, the proper way to do so is through a change in the law.

But frankly, if you really look at the code and really understand its restrictions, it is hard to argue with. Carrying a flag horizontal means that to half of a crowd the blue field is seen as upside down.

I don't think even the staunchest of the hippies who've been arguing against me in this thread would have the galll to claim that displaying a flag upside down is respectful.
 
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Guy Incognito said:
I love that site. It's a real wake-up call. It's a must read for anybody who doesn't truly understand flag code.

Speaking of which, I've noticed a lot of people here claim that flag code is out of date or should be changed. If that is true, he proper way to do so is through a change in the law.

But frankly, if you really look at the code and really understand its restrictions, it is hard to argue with. Carrying a flag horizontal means that to half of a crowad the blue field is seen as upside down.

I don't think even the staunchest of the hippies who've been arguing against me in this thread would have the galll to claim that that displaying a flag upside down is respectful.
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So you believe that the flag display during the Superbowl, Veterans Day Parade, and the Bush inaugural parade were all disrespectful to the flag then?
 
Whovian said:
So you believe that the flag display during the Superbowl, Veterans Day Parade, and the Bush inaugural parade were all disrespectful to the flag then?
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I don't have to believe anything. They are all clear violations of flag code, if they are true.

But I have a hard time believing a Veteran's Day parade would make such a rookie mistake. Pics or it never happened.
 
Whovian said:
So you believe that the flag display during the Superbowl, Veterans Day Parade, and the Bush inaugural parade were all disrespectful to the flag then?
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Apparently it's appropriate so long as it doesn't touch the ground. . . I didn't read any criticisms of parade procession as it's traditionally done.

what would be wrong in a procession, anyway?
 
Aunt Spiker said:
Apparently it's appropriate so long as it doesn't touch the ground. . . I didn't read any criticisms of parade procession as it's traditionally done.

what would be wrong in a procession, anyway?
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According to the letter of Flag Code, which I posted a few posts ago...

The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free.
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In the pictures I posted, the flag is being carried flat/horizontally, which is against the 'letter' of the flag code.

My entire point is that that is ridiculous. The inauguration parade for Bush was disrespectful to the flag? Come on....
 
Aunt Spiker said:
what would be wrong in a procession, anyway?
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The implication is that it's in violation of Section 8(c): "The flag should never be carried flat or horizontally, but always aloft and free."
 
Whovian said:
My entire point is that that is ridiculous. The inauguration parade for Bush was disrespectful to the flag? Come on....
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Bush and Obama are both serial Flag offenders. Is that your point?
 
And yesterday in Boston Palin tells the small crowd about Paul Revere's ride to ring the bells to let the British know that American's had guns. :2rofll:

That's Sarah Palin, not afraid to tell it like it is, as the Teabaggers say. :shock:
 
Barbbtx said:
These anti-Americans are just offended at the very sight of anything the least bit patriotic. Stars and Stripes are better when out of sight out of mind.
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I'm sure the US Flag Code is anti-American.
 
Whovian said:
my point is that anyone who thinks the pictures I posted show disrespect for the flag needs a psychiatric evaluation.
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I don't think anybody is arguing that disrespect was intended. But they are violations sufficient to cause dishonor to the flag in and of themselves, regardless of the intent of the person committing them. Ignorance of the law does not mean that it is not a violation.
 
Whovian said:
the President can change it by proclamation as well.
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And the Supreme Court can find it unconstitutional. There are a number of ways to change it. Now get busy!
 
Guy Incognito said:
I don't think anybody is arguing that disrespect was intended...
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Of course not, on that we can agree.

However, the very idea that carrying a flag horizontally during a parade, or painting a beautiful flag mural on the side of a building, is somehow disrespectful to the flag... is IMHO ridiculous.

The only reason it is even considered to be so by some people (such as yourself), is because in some other persons humble opinion, it is somehow disrespectful. The only difference between that person and myself, is that THEY got to write the code, and I didn't.
 
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Whovian said:
scr_200101221a_hr.jpg
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What exactly is going on in this picture, anyway?

There's at least one violation of flag code, the guy in the front wearing the flag as apparel.

But unless the flag here is actually on display, it may not be a violation. Perhaps they are folding it?
 
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