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Is Sarah Palin's use of the American flag a breach of federal law?

Is Sarah Palin's use of the flag breaking the law?

  • YES! Fine her! Throw her in jail!

    Votes: 3 6.5%

  • Maybe...it seems disrespectful.

    Votes: 2 4.3%

  • Really? This is what we're talking about?

    Votes: 41 89.1%
  • Total voters
    46
Tucker Case said:
I'm still not sure how the last one violates flag code. It appears to be perfectly displayed in accordance with the code.
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I am assuming it is a mural... but looking at the last one again, it might not even be there... could be photoshopped, in which case it would certainly not be applicable.

However, the other images posted are all murals... outside... which meet the definition of 'flag' in the code... and would get rained on or snowed on, thus technically violating the code. However, I seriously doubt those responsible, nor anyone passing by those murals, woudl consider them unpatriotic or a defemation of the 'flag', and as such a violation or offense.
 
tessaesque said:
No, some people decided to give importance to an object. They created an arbitrary code which contains suggested behaviors when handling an object they gave significance to. It has no significance to me, and since I can not be punished for refusing to fake significance, I won't. It is a law that is been invalidated, which is why it cannot be enforced and violations penalized. It is merely a suggestion, based on the opinions of those who wrote it. The majority may support those suggestions, but they are not harmed by my not following them....nor is the country. "Right thing" is incredibly subjective in regards to flag handling procedures and proper "respect" of the flag. Respect of the flag is not mandatory, nor should it be.

To worship the flag as some do is almost the political equivalent of idol worship, if you think about it. Putting a symbol before the very thing it represents...
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Just out of curiosity; did you used to pledge allegiance to the flag, or did you choose not to? Was it ever even requested of you?
 
Guy Incognito said:
It wasn't just any old person who wrote flag code, it was the very country that you claim means everything to you. We the people have decided how the flag should be treated, and formalized it in Title 4 USC Chapter 1. It's the law.

But I guess that's not good enough for you, huh?
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Guy, I honestly respect your obvious passion for this. Between having a bunch of respect for the flag and having none at all, I prefer the former. You've also shown me that, for you, this really is about the flag (not just Sarah Palin) and I respect that as well.
 
BDBoop said:
Just out of curiosity; did you used to pledge allegiance to the flag, or did you choose not to? Was it ever even requested of you?
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We did the pledge when I was in school. I pledged allegience to the county, with liberty and justice for all...once I was old enough to make the distinctions I've outlined here.
 
Ockham said:
Another tip: "Never" is an absolute and quoting absolutes is usually a losing proposition.
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Perhaps, but you have failed to meet your burden of proving me wrong. The case you referenced is not an example of government enforcement of flag code. Try reading a little more carefully.
 
X Factor said:
Guy, I honestly respect your obvious passion for this. Between having a bunch of respect for the flag and having none at all, I prefer the former. You've also shown me that, for you, this really is about the flag (not just Sarah Palin) and I respect that as well.
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Thanks X, that's nice of you to say. I truly appreciate it.
 
Guy Incognito said:
It shows that he doesn't have a particularly thorough understanding of the requirements of flag code that he thinks all of those displays of the flag are equivalent.
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I've read the code sam as everyone else here has. Saying a mural or the american flag is unpatriotic or disrespectful to the flag, because it's on the side of a building where it can get rained on... is ****ing stupid.
 
tessaesque said:
We did the pledge when I was in school. I pledged allegience to the county, with liberty and justice for all...once I was old enough to make the distinctions I've outlined here.
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So when everybody else was saying "to the flag", you were saying "to the country, of the United States of America"?
 
BDBoop said:
So when everybody else was saying "to the flag", you were saying "to the country, of the United States of America"?
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No. I said "I pledge alligience to the republic, with liberty and justice for all". The rest was omitted (or I remained silent).
 
tessaesque said:
We did the pledge when I was in school. I pledged allegience to the county, with liberty and justice for all...once I was old enough to make the distinctions I've outlined here.
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So the flag itself, means nothing to you at all?
 
X Factor said:
So the flag itself, means nothing to you at all?
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Not particularly, no. I understand the symbolism people place on it. I get it. I'm not going to go take a crap on somebody's flag or anything...But I'm also not going to rant and rave and chatize somebody who does take a crap on somebody's flag.

So I guess...I'll respect the thing in so far as I'm able to (I don't display one, so I can't imagine I'd be in violation of the flag code anyway), but I'm not doing so because of it means anything to me, but rather because I see no reason to antagonize somebody deliberately. Harming the flag promotes no agenda for me, personally. Neither does worshipping it. So I just don't touch it, period.
 
Whovian said:
I've read the code sam as everyone else here has. Saying a mural or the american flag is unpatriotic or disrespectful to the flag, because it's on the side of a building where it can get rained on... is ****ing stupid.
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I have to admit, I really like this one. I think it's beautifully done.

Whovian said:
Disrespectful, because it violates flag code?
214717658_32aaa78a71.jpg
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X Factor said:
I have to admit, I really like this one.
214717658_32aaa78a71.jpg

I think it's beautifully done.
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I pass that twice a week, on my way to take my youngest som to his mom's in NJ on the weekends. You come off the Vine Street Expressway, onto 95 North, and it's staring you in the face on the way down the ramp. I smile everytime I see it, and never once have I considered it disrespectful of the American flag.
 
Whovian said:
I've read the code sam as everyone else here has. Saying a mural or the american flag is unpatriotic or disrespectful to the flag, because it's on the side of a building where it can get rained on... is ****ing stupid.
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The idea is not simply that it can get rained on, but that the flag can become worn out or even destroyed in the process of being exposed to the elements, thus being disrespected.

But, to quote Lavar Burton, you don't have to take my word for it:

4 USC 1 § 6 (c) said:
The flag should not be displayed on days when the weather is inclement, except when an all weather flag is displayed.
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Whovian said:
SuperStock_1527R-1206078.jpg
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This one is fine. No violation.

Whovian said:
QueensCrapblog_flag600.jpg
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Even if murals were ok, this is advertising. It's a violation.

Whovian said:
large_mural01mlive.jpg
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This one isn't even a real flag. No stars. These Vets seem to have an good understanding of Flag Code. No violation.

Whovian said:
10941560-96ee-01b00144-.jpg
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It's a nice painting, I just wish it was indoors. It's a violation.

Whovian said:
MinutemanMural.jpg
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Ditto.

Whovian said:
...then the flag code needs to be changed.
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You're free to write your Congressperson.
 
Guy Incognito said:
large_mural01mlive.jpg

This one isn't even a real flag. No stars. These Vets seem to have an good understanding of Flag Code. No violation..
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Your understanding of flag code needs work...
The words "flag, standard, colors, or ensign", as used herein, shall include any flag, standard, colors, ensign, or any picture or representation of either, or of any part or parts of either, made of any substance or represented on any substance, of any size evidently purporting to be either of said flag, standard, colors, or ensign of the United States of America or a picture or a representation of either, upon which shall be shown the colors, the stars and the stripes, in any number of either thereof, or of any part or parts of either, by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America.
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Read that last part carefully, look at the picture, and tell me that picture does not represent the American flag to you.
 
Whovian said:
Your understanding of flag code needs work...


Read that last part carefully, look at the picture, and tell me that picture does not represent the American flag to you.
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Whovian, I am basing my statement on precisely that passage from the Code. Who is going to mistake that for an American flag? It's got an uninterrupted field of blue. The American flag does not and never has looked like that. By your logic a Liberian flag would be considered an American flag, too.

That being said, I can see the argument going the other direction. If I squint real hard and don't notice the lack of stars, it looks like an American flag. So perhaps you are right, maybe this is also a violation of flag code.
 
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tessaesque said:
Why? I'm pledging my loyalty to the country, above all else. There is absolutely ntohing wrong with that.
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There is nothing wrong with pledging your loyalty to this country, but that it not what you are doing. You are purposely butchering the Pledge.

You don't get to write the Flag Code yourself and you don't get to write the Pledge either! Geez!
 
Guy Incognito said:
There is nothing wrong with pledging your loyalty to this country, but that it not what you are doing. You are purposely butchering the Pledge.

You don't get to write the Flag Code and you don't get to write the Pledge either! Geez!
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What? Now the pledge is law?
 
Guy Incognito said:
Whovian, I am basing my statement on precisely that passage from the Code. Who is going to mistake that for an American flag? It's an uninterrupted field of blue. The American flag does not and never has looked like that. By your logic a Liberian flag would be considered an American flag, too.

That being said, I can see the argument going the other direction. But perhaps you are right, maybe this is also a violation of flag code.
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First, that could well be incomplete. There is a man on a scaffold... he could be about to paint the stars.

Second, the passage specifically states...
'by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may believe the same to represent the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America'

not

'by which the average person seeing the same without deliberation may mistake it for the flag, colors, standard, or ensign of the United States of America'.

Big difference. Something can 'represent' the flag, without being 'mistaken for' the flag.
 
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