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Is Sarah Palin's use of the American flag a breach of federal law?

Is Sarah Palin's use of the flag breaking the law?

  • YES! Fine her! Throw her in jail!

    Votes: 3 6.5%
  • Maybe...it seems disrespectful.

    Votes: 2 4.3%
  • Really? This is what we're talking about?

    Votes: 41 89.1%

  • Total voters
    46
A law that the supreme court invalidated, thus no law.

The Supreme Court has not invalidated Flag Code. It is still very much on the books. Title 4 United States Code Chapter 1. Feel free to look it up.
 
The Supreme Court has not invalidated Flag Code. It is still very much on the books. Title 4 United States Code Chapter 1. Feel free to look it up.

Right, and in the flag burning case the Supreme Court said freedom of speech supercedes protections for the flag.
 
It's codified law nevertheless. If you want to be respectful to the flag, then follow it. Otherwise don't try to tell me you're being respectful, because it is a matter of law that when you are violating flag code you are desecrating the flag.

go back in the thread and find the flag murals I posted.

Are they, IYHO, violating flag code, and thus desecrating the flag? They technically meet the Flag Code definition of 'flag'.
 
go back in the thread and find the flag murals I posted.

Are they, IYHO, violating flag code, and thus desecrating the flag? They technically meet the Flag Code definition of 'flag'.

I have neither time nor inclination to do that, but feel free to post a link.

If they are outdoors where they can be rained on and otherwise exposed to the elements, then yes.
 
Right, and in the flag burning case the Supreme Court said freedom of speech supercedes protections for the flag.

And your take-away from this that Flag Code no longer exists?

Violations of Flag Code are not criminal. Flag Code is essentially voluntary. But it is still law, it can still be violated, and its violation is a desecration to the flag.
 
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And your take-away from this that Flag Code no longer exists?

Violations of Flag Code are not criminal. Flag Code is essentially voluntary. But it is still law, it can still be violated, and its violation is a desecration to the flag.

And without enforcibility or consequence it really doesn't matter.
 
And without enforcibility or consequence it really doesn't matter.

Are you the type of person who needs someone constantly standing over you with the threat of punishment to do the right thing?

Some of us will do the right thing even if without the threat of punishment. Shocking, I know, but there you have it.
 
Are you the type of person who needs someone constantly standing over you with the threat of punishment to do the right thing?

Some of us will do the right thing even if without the threat of punishment. Shocking, I know, but there you have it.

I'm pretty sure the "right thing" is subjective here.
 
I'm pretty sure the "right thing" is subjective here.

Incorrect. This is not a matter of opinion. The "right thing" is objective and in fact it has been conveniently written down for us in the form of US Flag Code. Use it.
 
Incorrect. This is not a matter of opinion. The "right thing" is objective and in fact it has been conveniently written down for us in the form of US Flag Code. Use it.

Fact is, it's rarely used or enforced as law. Somehow I doubt it will be used where Sara Palin is concerned.
 
Fact is, it's rarely used or enforced as law.

Wrong on both counts. It is mandatory for the military and other government entities to follow flag code and it is frequently referred to by those of us civilians who do not want to disrespect our flag, our country or our troops.

And flag code is not "rarely" enforced. It is never enforced.
 
I have neither time nor inclination to do that, but feel free to post a link.

If they are outdoors where they can be rained on and otherwise exposed to the elements, then yes.

Translation: I am too lazy to go and look, and it might prove me wrong if I did.


Well, here...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/100440-sarah-palins-use-american-flag-breach-federal-law-9.html#post1059534218

Point conceded. I did indeed miss that part.

However...

Disrespectful, because it violates flag code?
flag_mural.jpg


Disrespectful, because it violates flag code?
214717658_32aaa78a71.jpg


Disrespectful, because it violates flag code?
Pic-AmericanFlag.jpg


Disrespectful, because it violates flag code?
0420-0907-0716-5217_soldiers_gathered_in_front_of_a_huge_american_flag_and_a_mural_of_soldiers_m.jpg


Do YOU want to tell the American soldiers in this picture they are being disrespectful of thier flag, because this mural violates flag code?

now that I've done your thread research FOR you... answer the question.
 
Wrong on both counts. It is mandatory for the military and other government entities to follow flag code and it is frequently referred to by those of us civilians who do not want to disrespect our flag, our country or our troops.

And flag code is not "rarely" enforced. It is never enforced.

Sara Palin is not in the military nor part of a government entity - therefore your comment including the military is irrelevant.

And YOU are wrong - (tip for you: Google is your friend).

Court sides with veteran who flew flag upside down - latimes.com
 
Translation: I am too lazy to go and look, and it might prove me wrong if I did.

Incorrect. My time is valuable, and I am not going to relieve you of your burden in the debate. You should support your own arguments and not whine about having to do so. At least you've done the former:roll:

Now, my answers? The first three murals clearly violate flag code, the last picture clearly does not.
 
Incorrect. This is not a matter of opinion. The "right thing" is objective and in fact it has been conveniently written down for us in the form of US Flag Code. Use it.

No, some people decided to give importance to an object. They created an arbitrary code which contains suggested behaviors when handling an object they gave significance to. It has no significance to me, and since I can not be punished for refusing to fake significance, I won't. It is a law that is been invalidated, which is why it cannot be enforced and violations penalized. It is merely a suggestion, based on the opinions of those who wrote it. The majority may support those suggestions, but they are not harmed by my not following them....nor is the country. "Right thing" is incredibly subjective in regards to flag handling procedures and proper "respect" of the flag. Respect of the flag is not mandatory, nor should it be.

To worship the flag as some do is almost the political equivalent of idol worship, if you think about it. Putting a symbol before the very thing it represents...
 
Sara Palin is not in the military nor part of a government entity - therefore your comment including the military is irrelevant.

And YOU are wrong - (tip for you: Google is your friend).

Court sides with veteran who flew flag upside down - latimes.com

What on earth are you talking about? You said flag code is rarely used, when it fact it is used very frequently, by both government entities (requiring it of their personel) and civilians. You are wrong, and you are also rapidly descending into incoherence. Shape up your argument or you won't be getting any more responses from me.
 
No, some people decided to give importance to an object. They created an arbitrary code which contains suggested behaviors when handling an object they gave significance to.

Flag code is arbitrary only if you consider human social norms to be arbitrary.

It has no significance to me,

I find it sad the the Flag, our country, and our troops have no significance to you. That is what the flag represents. Read flag code. According to our government, the flag is a living thing. It is not an abstraction, it literally is our country and our troops. When you disrespect the flag you disrespect them.

And what's worse is that you're being so glib about it, like you're proud to violate flag code. Shame.
 
Flag code is arbitrary only if you consider human social norms to be arbitrary.



I find it sad the the Flag, our country, and our troops have no significance to you. That is what the flag represents. Read flag code. According to our government, the flag is a living thing. It is not an abstraction, it literally is our country and our troops. When you disrespect the flag you disrespect them.

And what's worse is that you're being so glib about it, like you're proud to violate flag code. Shame.

My country, the people who fight and die for it, and our way of life mean everything to me. Just because somebody else decided that the flag represents all of those things doesn't mean I have to agree with them in order to support my country. That idea is ridiculous and a bit immature.
 
My country, the people who fight and die for it, and our way of life mean everything to me. Just because somebody else decided that the flag represents all of those things doesn't mean I have to agree with them in order to support my country. That idea is ridiculous and a bit immature.

It wasn't just any old person who wrote flag code, it was the very country that you claim means everything to you. We the people have decided how the flag should be treated, and formalized it in Title 4 USC Chapter 1. It's the law.

But I guess that's not good enough for you, huh?
 
It wasn't just any old person who wrote flag code, it was the very country that you claim means everything to you. We the people have decided how the flag should be treated, and formalized it in Title 4 USC Chapter 1. It's the law.

But I guess that's not good enough for you, huh?

It's a law that elected officials wrote. You would be hard pressed to argue that elected officials are always or even usually right, first of all. Secondly, apparently more than one Supreme Court ruling has stated the freedom of speech trumps flag code. So apparently the Supreme Court doesn't support America either, right?

It is an arbitrary symbol. It means nothing until somebody decides that it does. I can decide right now that holding up my ring and middle finger with the others folded down means "you're a commie prick", but it doesn't mean anything to anybody else until they decide to put that meaning into it. Our nation will not survive or die on our dedication to a piece of cloth. Our country will survive or die on the basis of whether its citizens elect officials who wish to protect the country. Protecting the flag is not part of that.
 
I'm still not sure how the last one violates flag code. It appears to be perfectly displayed in accordance with the code.

It shows that he doesn't have a particularly thorough understanding of the requirements of flag code that he thinks all of those displays of the flag are equivalent.
 
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