View Poll Results: Do you believe that "Circumstance of Birth exists?

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Thread: Circumstance of Birth

  1. #21
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Yep, that's what I figured.
    This is all straw.
    Indeed it is... Bale...

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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    Indeed it is... Bale...
    You apparently don't understand my refrence.
    You set up a straw man so that you could easily beat him down.

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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    You apparently don't understand my refrence.
    You set up a straw man so that you could easily beat him down.
    Indeed..no doubt about it. I'm a cruel person.

  4. #24
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    I'm pretty sure your profession and weight aren't predetermined at birth. You choose whether or not to eat that food, and what you enjoy doing. You choose whether to try hard in school or to blow it off. You choose whether to accept that job or not, or to even apply for it.

    Unless you're implying some sort of divine force has an effect, which is quite amusing.

    I believe you're trying to make a point that we shouldn't judge others based on things beyond their control. That's all fine and dandy and I wholeheartedly agree, but some of the things you listed AREN'T beyond a lot of people's control.

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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatSandeno View Post
    I'm pretty sure your profession and weight aren't predetermined at birth. You choose whether or not to eat that food, and what you enjoy doing. You choose whether to try hard in school or to blow it off. You choose whether to accept that job or not, or to even apply for it.

    Unless you're implying some sort of divine force has an effect, which is quite amusing.

    I believe you're trying to make a point that we shouldn't judge others based on things beyond their control. That's all fine and dandy and I wholeheartedly agree, but some of the things you listed AREN'T beyond a lot of people's control.
    You're getting better...

    You're almost right, but why can't everything be predetermine prior to birth?

    Look GS...If any one of those items on the list was remotely possible...then we'd know that there IS NO SUCH THING as "Circumstance of Birth.

    In one of my previous post I made clear that this entire thread is a satire...used to make a point that nothing is predetermined. NOTHING!

    Do you believe sexual orientation is learned or circumstance of birth?

  6. #26
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatSandeno View Post
    I'm pretty sure your profession and weight aren't predetermined at birth. You choose whether or not to eat that food, and what you enjoy doing. You choose whether to try hard in school or to blow it off. You choose whether to accept that job or not, or to even apply for it.
    Ok. Let's take it in the opposite direction. I'm not saying most people aren't fat because of their habits, especially in this country. But they certainly must have the genetic ability to get fat in the first place.

    I don't. I can hardly eat fast enough to keep myself out of the "underweight" category. There is nothing medically wrong with me. I've been tested for every possible thing that could cause unexplained weight loss. Both my parents were thin into their 40's and still are pretty trim now. I have to consciously try to keep myself over 110, which is the minimum healthy weight for my height. I can't even eat fast food, because it makes me lose weight. Since the calories are empty and it has no real nutritional value, it just goes in one end and out the other. Am I choosing to be skinny? No. I can choose to do what I need to in order to be healthy, but I didn't choose for it to be difficult.

    Did I choose my (future) profession? Well, again, yes and no. There are some things I am just not that good at. There are other things I'm very good at. While I could be better at some things I'm bad at if I tried, I won't ever be as good as someone with talent. So I chose what my professional will be within the context of the things I am good at, and perhaps talented at.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-31-11 at 06:02 PM.

  7. #27
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Ok. Let's take it in the opposite direction. I'm not saying most people aren't fat because of their habits, especially in this country. But they certainly must have the genetic ability to get fat in the first place.

    I don't. I can hardly eat fast enough to keep myself out of the "underweight" category. There is nothing medically wrong with me. I've been tested for every possible thing that could cause unexplained weight loss. Both my parents were thin into their 40's and still are pretty trim now. I have to consciously try to keep myself over 110, which is the minimum healthy weight for my height. I can't even eat fast food, because it makes me lose weight. Since the calories are empty and it has no real nutritional value, it just goes in one end and out the other. Am I choosing to be skinny? No. I can choose to do what I need to in order to be healthy, but I didn't choose for it to be difficult.

    Did I choose my (future) profession? Well, again, yes and no. There are some things I am just not that good at. There are other things I'm very good at. While I could be better at some things I'm bad at if I tried, I won't ever be as good as someone with talent. So I chose what my professional will be within the context of the things I am good at, and perhaps talented at.
    MN...don't know if you read my opening post for this thread...but do you believe that any or every aspect of your life was predetermined...PRIOR to birth...either by you are some entity?

    Remember...its a satire...a spoof list of pre-birth preferences..

    I'm really trying to establish the existence of circumstance of birth. I say that we are all just who we are at birth. We are wired at birth in every way to be who we are. Including our sexual orientation.

  8. #28
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    MN...don't know if you read my opening post for this thread...but do you believe that any or every aspect of your life was predetermined...PRIOR to birth...either by you are some entity?

    Remember...its a satire...a spoof list of pre-birth preferences..

    I'm really trying to establish the existence of circumstance of birth. I say that we are all just who we are at birth. We are wired at birth in every way to be who we are. Including our sexual orientation.
    Basically you're asking if we have free will, if I'm reading correctly?

    I don't think we do. I do think everything is pre-determined by some action before it. Perhaps genetics, perhaps just the particular thread of reality we live in.

    We do have the illusion of free will, though. Even if you believe in free will, it's obvious I had no choice over my metabolism (and I think it should be obvious no one has choice over their sexuality), but I have the illusion of control over what I do about it. It's still only an illusion, but on practical terms, that doesn't matter.

    By entertaining your illusion of free will by, say, encouraging someone who's fat to change their lifestyle, they may actually do it and be healthier. This doesn't really mean you have free will because something else may have pre-determined your decision to talk to that person, but it doesn't matter in reality. It's a positive outcome no matter whether you were truly in control or not.

    If you're going to ask if I'd encourage someone to change their homosexual lifestyle, no. Because being gay doesn't hurt anyone, and trying to suppress it hurts the person who is gay. Trying to lose weight if you're overweight helps everyone, including the person who's overweight.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-31-11 at 06:17 PM.

  9. #29
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Basically you're asking if we have free will, if I'm reading correctly?

    I don't think we do. I do think everything is pre-determined by some action before it. Perhaps genetics, perhaps just the particular thread of reality we live in.

    We do have the illusion of free will, though. Even if you believe in free will, it's obvious I had no choice over my metabolism (and I think it should be obvious no one has choice over their sexuality), but I have the illusion of control over what I do about it. It's still only an illusion, but on practical terms, that doesn't matter.

    By entertaining your illusion of free will by, say, encouraging someone who's fat to change their lifestyle, they may actually do it and be healthier. This doesn't really mean you have free will because something else may have pre-determined your decision to talk to that person, but it doesn't matter in reality. It's a positive outcome no matter whether you were truly in control or not.

    If you're going to ask if I'd encourage someone to change their homosexual lifestyle, no. Because being gay doesn't hurt anyone, and trying to suppress it hurts the person who is gay. Trying to lose weight if you're overweight helps everyone, including the person who's overweight.
    MN...I've completely botched the intent of my thread.

    What I want people to consider from my opening post...after examining the list, which is a satirical list, a spoof of sorts, which was intended to raise the question..."Did I or any entity pre-determine all of the immutable characteristics prior to birth. Or are we simply a product of circumstance of birth.

    As silly to some as that may sound, there are a lot of people who believe that every aspect of their lives, including immutable characteristics is predetermined. And for some they believe that their characteristics are superior by divine design.

    I personally believe us to be a product of "circumstance of birth". From top to bottom, inside and out.

    But one important characteristic that is important to consider is sexual orientation. I believe that we're born wired with our sexuality as we are with all other physical and psychological characteristics.

    So that's my ploy, which failed miserably.

    I hope this makes better sense..

    The whole argument that we see in so many threads is that our sexual orientation is learned rather than a '"circumstance of birth".

  10. #30
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    Re: Circumstance of Birth

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    MN...I've completely botched the intent of my thread.

    What I want people to consider from my opening post...after examining the list, which is a satirical list, a spoof of sorts, which was intended to raise the question..."Did I or any entity pre-determine all of the immutable characteristics prior to birth. Or are we simply a product of circumstance of birth.

    As silly to some as that may sound, there are a lot of people who believe that every aspect of their lives, including immutable characteristics is predetermined. And for some they believe that their characteristics are superior by divine design.

    I personally believe us to be a product of "circumstance of birth". From top to bottom, inside and out.

    But one important characteristic that is important to consider is sexual orientation. I believe that we're born wired with our sexuality as we are with all other physical and psychological characteristics.

    So that's my ploy, which failed miserably.

    I hope this makes better sense..

    The whole argument that we see in so many threads is that our sexual orientation is learned rather than a '"circumstance of birth".
    Heh, it's all good. I think I was on the right page the first time. Those things, including sexuality, are all circumstances of birth, I totally agree.

    What I was simply saying is that we can choose how we handle that. In the case of weight problems, we can choose to fight against a natural propensity to be too heavy or too thin, because that can cause harm.

    However, in the case of homosexuality, there is no harm, so why fight it?

    I was basically just extending the argument into what comes after acknowledging circumstance of birth.

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