View Poll Results: Birth permit?

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  • Yes, direct permit (license)

    7 30.43%
  • Yes, indirect permit (taxation)

    1 4.35%
  • Hell no, this is an outrageous idea!

    4 17.39%
  • No, the state must stay out of this

    7 30.43%
  • I don't know

    1 4.35%
  • Other

    3 13.04%
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Thread: Birth permit

  1. #11
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    SmokeAndMirrors's Avatar
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    Re: Birth permit

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    The demographic transition is extensively documented. It has happened in every nation in which death rates dropped.


    Lower the death rate and the birth rate follows: fact.

    Education can alo be a factor but usually by the time we have gotten to that point the basic sanitation and food issues have been solved and the death rate is dropping. One example of education helping is in Kenya, where the division of family land between many children has taught people to family plan more extensively.
    True. China technically has that ability, but I got into an interesting discussion about China the other day.

    Their huge population may be devaluing their worth of individuals (in addition to how Communism itself does that). China is economically competitive because a tiny fraction of their population is still a huge number of people. So they can get away with leaving most of the nation poor, and get on with being competitive. There's no incentive for the leaders or the rich to pull up the poor majority, basically.

  2. #12
    global liberation

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    Re: Birth permit

    The elite in China live of off (literally) child slave labor and a total lack of enforcement regarding environmental law. They also lack any civil law. China's system is perhaps the best example of unsustainability in the world. They value their own currency, forge their child mortality rates and treat their own as slaves. If (and when) China adopts basic labor, civil and environmental rights - the country will collapse and probably fragment.

    China is the world's paper tiger.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 05-31-11 at 03:39 AM.

  3. #13
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    Re: Birth permit

    Our birth rate is already lower than China without any kind of child policy.

    And the US birth rate is already at an all time low.

    U.S. Birth Rate Hits All-Time Low
    Live Births and Birth Rates, by Year — Infoplease.com
    U.S. birth rate: Drop in birth rate is the biggest in 30 years - Los Angeles Times

    We have the ability to allow women past menopause to be able to bear children (using donor egg) and we still have a drop in the birth rate.

    There is no need to restrict people from having kids in any way because the problem isn't more children being born, it is people living longer. And it is very wrong to mandate who can or cannot have children or how many children a person/couple should have.

    Now, I am not opposed to finding a way to reduce the incentives for having multiple children just for some financial gain to either or both parents. Limiting how many child credits a couple/person can claim is a start. Also, finding a good way to discourage people from having children while on government welfare would also help.

    And we should be trying to encourage more people, especially those who want children but can't have their own, to adopt rather than spending the money to try to have their own blood-related child, but it should not be mandated. Some ways to do this is to ensure that all discriminatory barriers to adoption are taken out while not compromising on the quality of adoptive parents (i.e. allowing gays to adopt, unmarried couples to adopt, single people to adopt while maintaining strict background checks and proper screening for all potential adoptive parents, and ensuring that adoption is a lot more affordable than IVF, surrogacy, or other procedures like these).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

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  4. #14
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    Re: Birth permit

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Social welfare, overpopulation, resource scarcity, ethnic map, etc. Do you think they can or must result in a "birth permit", i.e. the state dictating demographics in exchange of welfare, for example? Could it be direct (license) or indirect (taxation) permit?
    Should criminals, drug addicts, hobos, etc be allowed to have children?

    Are we headed that direction? I mean, China already implemented something like this (heavy taxation for a second child) due to huge population and scarce territory. Please, share your thoughts.
    My wife and I were approached about adopting a little girl in foster care.
    The ****ing adoption process is so damn difficult that it looks like we won't be able to complete it.

    But any ****tard can squeeze out 8 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment.
    Doesn't make any sense.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  5. #15
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    Re: Birth permit

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    My wife and I were approached about adopting a little girl in foster care.
    The ****ing adoption process is so damn difficult that it looks like we won't be able to complete it.

    But any ****tard can squeeze out 8 kids in a 1 bedroom apartment.
    Doesn't make any sense.
    This is exactly why we need to change our adoption policies. It takes way too long for us to decide that someone or a couple are fit to be adoptive parents.

    I don't see why the adopting process shouldn't be some basic background check (ensure that the person/people aren't pedos or known abusers or drug users or non-recovering alcoholics). Basic financial check to ensure that the couple can afford a child. And then do some checkins with the family from time to time for a limited amount of time or until the child is of a certain age to ensure the child is doing okay. The time period of the last one could be dependent on any suspect information and the results of previous checkins.

    It shouldn't cost more or take more time to adopt than it does to have your own children, especially going through artificial methods to have your own children.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  6. #16
    Baby Eating Monster
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    Re: Birth permit

    I won't support any policy that attempts to impose a birth limit on citizens. On the other hand, if a family is receiving government assistance, I do support removing any additional children from the home who are produced after the benefits started.

  7. #17
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    Re: Birth permit

    It wouldn't really solve the social problems, so no.

    If you want problems solved, you have to raise people's consciousness by improving things like diet, health care, education, etc.

    More laws and restrictions are not a solution, but I suppose as people become more stupid and medicated, the government will increasingly control bodily functions.

  8. #18
    Dungeon Master
    Veni, vidi, dormivi!

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    Re: Birth permit

    You gonna lock people up for having an illegal baby?
    So follow me into the desert
    As desperate as you are
    Where the moon is glued to a picture of heaven
    And all the little pigs have God

  9. #19
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    Re: Birth permit

    Quote Originally Posted by spud_meister View Post
    You gonna lock people up for having an illegal baby?
    Me? Not really, no.
    May be just impose 50% income tax.

  10. #20
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    Re: Birth permit

    Plus, I think trying to limit the birth rate is the absolute worst thing we could do for our economic health. If anything, we should be encouraging it.

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