View Poll Results: Do you support plastic surgery for children to lessen the "look" of Down's Syndrome?

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    9 34.62%
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Thread: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

  1. #41
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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I would consider a severe speech problem a medical problem. Speech is a major component of functioning as a human being. If speech therapy has failed to give her an acceptable level of speech competence, then considering surgery to correct that is somewhat different than considering it to make her "prettier." Especially considering her high IQ, which probably means she has a lot of drive to communicate. This is, after all, how kids learn.

    But another aspect may be speech delay, or a gap in understanding speech vs. knowing how to communicate it, both of which can also be issues with Downs. I don't claim to know whether her main problem is speech impediment, delay, or understanding, but if it's the latter 2, surgery won't help, and becomes cosmetic once again.

    I just think that considering what will actually and truthfully help the child is the most important thing to consider. There's no evidence cosmetic surgery does. I had a bit of a read about this - apparently it's happened before, and independent raters didn't seem to notice much difference - indicating the ability to pick out "differences" is not deterred by plastic surgery. And how would it be? Differences in stature, movement, head shape, etc are all still there. There's no evidence it actually improves the child's quality of life.
    Can you post the link to the "reading" you did on this? I'd like to see the differences before and after and see what people say.

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by lovetosing4678 View Post
    Can you post the link to the "reading" you did on this? I'd like to see the differences before and after and see what people say.
    There's no pics, but while the parents of the children thought there was an improvement, independent raters did not.
    Down syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Parents can and do choose elective surgeries for their children for a variety of reasons. To repair a major birth defect or condition that makes eating, speaking, walking, etc., difficult would be sensible, just as sensible as a parent who approves surgery to repair a child's heart valve or correct any major health issue. However, a full-face plastic surgery for purely cometic means on a young child would be a horrific, painful, lingering trauma that no [b]legitimate]/b] ever would or should undertake.

    I just don't understand the mindset of those who believe otherwise.

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    I think this is wrong. We shouldn't subject people with Downs syndrome to plastic surgery because some people cannot accept them due to their appearance. It assumes that there is something wrong with how someone with Downs looks. The problem lies within the people who judge based on appearance and who would judge an individual worth Downs syndrome based on how they look. Supporting this would only cater to the immaturity of those who can't look past appearance.
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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by digsbe View Post
    I think this is wrong. We shouldn't subject people with Downs syndrome to plastic surgery because some people cannot accept them due to their appearance. It assumes that there is something wrong with how someone with Downs looks. The problem lies within the people who judge based on appearance and who would judge an individual worth Downs syndrome based on how they look. Supporting this would only cater to the immaturity of those who can't look past appearance.
    Why do girls wear make up, it costs money and is pointless? Shouldn't girls just say, I don't care how I look and be ugly. But fact is people do. You can try to change the world, but you won't be able to.

    It seems to me that most people are against it, because they think it is morally wrong. However, I care more about the consequences. And if the girl get plastic surgery then she will have a better life. Is it wrong to want your child to have a better life?

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    Why do girls wear make up, it costs money and is pointless? Shouldn't girls just say, I don't care how I look and be ugly. But fact is people do. You can try to change the world, but you won't be able to.

    It seems to me that most people are against it, because they think it is morally wrong. However, I care more about the consequences. And if the girl get plastic surgery then she will have a better life. Is it wrong to want your child to have a better life?
    I do exactly that. I never wear make-up for anything apart from a costume. I haven't spent money on make-up since a Halloween party 3 years ago. But somehow, not wearing make-up doesn't seem to make people think I'm ugly.

    And here's the other thing. While it's true there is social pressure, at the end of the day, the woman CHOOSES to wear make-up. I choose not to. And for the most part, it doesn't really seem to matter to anyone.

    A child DOES NOT CHOOSE to go through excruciating surgery. If the child becomes an adult and decides to do that, be my guest. But the consent issue here is huge. And the fact is that the message this child's parents are sending it that the child should be ashamed of how they look. Make-up sends the same message, but you can wash make-up off. You can't get your face back once it's been cut up.

    There is no evidence she will have a better life. People can still tell she has Downs (see above). It does nothing. It's symbolic and shaming. And the child doesn't consent.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-01-11 at 12:25 AM.

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I do exactly that. I never wear make-up for anything apart from a costume. I haven't spent money on make-up since a Halloween party 3 years ago. But somehow, not wearing make-up doesn't seem to make people think I'm ugly.
    So do you comb your hair? Do you go to a hairdressser to cut your hair, or do you cut it yourself? What about your kids, do you care about how they look?

    And here's the other thing. While it's true there is social pressure, at the end of the day, the woman CHOOSES to wear make-up. I choose not to. And for the most part, it doesn't really seem to matter to anyone.

    A child DOES NOT CHOOSE to go through excruciating surgery. If the child becomes an adult and decides to do that, be my guest. But the consent issue here is huge. And the fact is that the message this child's parents are sending it that the child should be ashamed of how they look. Make-up sends the same message, but you can wash make-up off. You can't get your face back once it's been cut up.
    Parents are allowed to take decisions for their kids. Do you complain when parents pick a school for their kids, that is certinally not reversible. If parents are doing a decision that will benefit the kid greatly, then I don't see the problem.

    It sends out the message that the parents care about their kid and want her/him to have a better life.


    There is no evidence she will have a better life. People can still tell she has Downs (see above). It does nothing. It's symbolic and shaming. And the child doesn't consent.
    If you see above, then you will see that Downs is not the problem. Problem is their deformed faces. Naturally we are evolved to avoid humans with deformed faces. A Downs kid with a more normal face will be adorable and will be approached much more often.

    We don't live in a fairytale world. So we can not expect people to behave perfect and ideal. We should focus on making our and others life as best as possible. It's pointless to suffer, because you feel that other people should behave in a different way.

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    So do you comb your hair? Do you go to a hairdressser to cut your hair, or do you cut it yourself? What about your kids, do you care about how they look?
    Actually, yes I do cut my own hair. Do I brush it? Depends on how long it is. Sometimes it's short-ish and doesn't need it. Sometimes I like how it looks simply air-dried. It kinda breaks off into piecey waves, and I decide not to brush it. My kids? I don't have any - I'm childfree.

    Parents are allowed to take decisions for their kids. Do you complain when parents pick a school for their kids, that is certinally not reversible. If parents are doing a decision that will benefit the kid greatly, then I don't see the problem.
    I complained about the school my parents put me in in elementary school. They looked at my reasoning, decided it had some merit, and moved me to another school. But that really doesn't compare. If a mother decided to get her 7-year-old a nose job because she didn't like the shape, do you think that would fly? Do you think that's ok? How about cutting off a kid's ear?

    It sends out the message that the parents care about their kid and want her/him to have a better life.
    No, it sends the message that the parents are ashamed.

    If you see above, then you will see that Downs is not the problem. Problem is their deformed faces. Naturally we are evolved to avoid humans with deformed faces. A Downs kid with a more normal face will be adorable and will be approached much more often.

    We don't live in a fairytale world. So we can not expect people to behave perfect and ideal. We should focus on making our and others life as best as possible. It's pointless to suffer, because you feel that other people should behave in a different way.
    "Deformed" faces are not a medical problem. And it says something that you think that they're deformed. While Downs kids are identifiable as such, I really don't think they're deformed. They're not too far off from the realm of looking like a different race.

    If you'd look at the link I posted earlier, you would see that plastic surgery DOES NOT CONCEAL that they have Downs. Independent observers couldn't tell a huge difference, even if the parents think the result was good.

    I was raised to see disabled people as people. I have no trouble doing so. I don't think Downs kids are deformed, like you do. Maybe if we taught that to people we wouldn't have parents who feel a need to have their child cut open to hide what they are.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 06-01-11 at 12:56 AM.

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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by DiAnna View Post
    Parents can and do choose elective surgeries for their children for a variety of reasons. To repair a major birth defect or condition that makes eating, speaking, walking, etc., difficult would be sensible, just as sensible as a parent who approves surgery to repair a child's heart valve or correct any major health issue. However, a full-face plastic surgery for purely cometic means on a young child would be a horrific, painful, lingering trauma that no [b]legitimate]/b] ever would or should undertake.

    I just don't understand the mindset of those who believe otherwise.
    My mindset is that I addressed the idea of plastic surgery for Down's Syndrome. What you are apparently responding to and addressing are posts that are not directly related to the topic. Your outrage is noted, but misplaced.










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    Re: Plastic Surgery for Children With Down's Syndrome.

    Quote Originally Posted by Camlon View Post
    So do you comb your hair? Do you go to a hairdressser to cut your hair, or do you cut it yourself? What about your kids, do you care about how they look?


    Parents are allowed to take decisions for their kids. Do you complain when parents pick a school for their kids, that is certinally not reversible. If parents are doing a decision that will benefit the kid greatly, then I don't see the problem.

    It sends out the message that the parents care about their kid and want her/him to have a better life.



    If you see above, then you will see that Downs is not the problem. Problem is their deformed faces. Naturally we are evolved to avoid humans with deformed faces. A Downs kid with a more normal face will be adorable and will be approached much more often.

    We don't live in a fairytale world. So we can not expect people to behave perfect and ideal. We should focus on making our and others life as best as possible. It's pointless to suffer, because you feel that other people should behave in a different way.
    DEFORMED FACES!!!! Someone show me, please, how to take this discussion and my appropriate response to this post to the Basement!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!










    "When Faith preaches Hate, Blessed are the Doubters." - Amin Maalouf

    When trouble arises and things look bad, there is always one individual who perceives a solution and is willing to take command. Very often, that person is crazy. ~Dave Barry



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