View Poll Results: Same-sex marriage is wrong because

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • It isn't, and should be available to all gay couples

    77 68.14%
  • Being gay is wrong, so they can't get married

    16 14.16%
  • The sanctity of marriage. No, I wasn't laughing. I was coughing. *cough* ... see?

    4 3.54%
  • It will set a bad example for Christian youth

    0 0%
  • I don't honestly have a good reason, but I still say no

    1 0.88%
  • Other (please explain)

    15 13.27%
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Thread: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

  1. #891
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    In response to mac - drawing the line between juvenile/minor and adult at the age of 18 is based on psychological studies. CC can probably answer the question better than I can, but it has to do with brain development and maturity level. I mean, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
    I'm sure there is some arbitrary nature to it somewhere. An age had to be picked. But there are also ways for minors to achieve adult status and "divorce" essentially their parents. Not really done much because there's relatively little to no need to do so. 18 is where it's at for better or for worse.
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    If nobody can offer a credible list of what social damages are imposed on this nations by gay marriage...then what's the point of this thread?

    If there are no social consequences caused by gay marriage...then what the hell would induce hundreds to post on this topic?

    All we're left with is...If a person believes it's immoral...don't ****do it. What else is there to say?

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Deemed by the government.

    Nope, its not always been that way. There's been times in history where 14 or 15 could easily be considered an adult.

    They can't use their parts "at will" with whomever they choose for the same reason we can't choose to use our hands to choke people whenever we choose simply because we "naturally" have them. In the case of the 14 and 35 year old, the 35 year old is violating the rights of minor who is not empowered to be able to agree to engage in such acts with an adult.



    Its how the laws been set. A line must be set at a certain age. If you have an argument on why it should be 17 instead of 18, I'm happy to hear it.



    Never heavily researched it. Do you know? Or are you just saying things hoping they'll make a point without actually knowing what it is you're talking about?



    Well yeah, are you going to tell me the sky is blue next. What I can tell you though from accepted and long standing constitutional law is this. There's this thing called the Equal Protection Clause. It has three teirs of protection in regards to the state discriminating against people.

    There's the bottom teir, middle, and top. As you go higher up in teirs the state not only has to have a more important interest in enacting the discrimination but also needs more evidence that the discrimination is needed to reach that interest.

    See, that's the thing. The government absolutely CAN discriminate. There's nothing wrong with the government discriminating. As long as it can make the necessary argument.

    In the case of age discrimination, its the bottom teir. That means to discriminate against age the government only needs to show a rationally related to serving a legitimate state interest.

    Gender on the other hand is middle teir, requiring an IMPORTANT state interest rather than simply a legitimate one and that the discrimination is substantially needed to serve said interest.

    State has an interest in preserving tradition? Can't be that important, part of the traditional marriage definition in this country changed once already. State has an interest in pushing for family? Can't be that important since they don't require you to agree to start a family when you get married, they allow infertile individuals to get married, and same sex couples are able to start a family. Reduce work load on the tax system by allowing some people to co-submit? Same sex couples can live together too.

    You're attempting to discredit my argument by pointing out that the government discriminates, but its never been my stance that it doesn't do that. It does, and it absolutely can. As long as it can meet the standards of the EPC.

    I can specifiy why I think our marriage laws don't. Can you tell me what IMPORTANT state interest in gained substantially through the discrimination of men and women regarding marriage?



    Indeed it does. I've made my argument multiple times, and again just now, as to why it doesn't meet the level necessary to be constitutional. Please, make your argument why it is constitutional.



    So you're fine with guns being banned?



    So a man can do something a woman can't........but that's not gender discrimination. So you're saying that's not making a distinction in favor of or against a person or thing on the basis of the group, class, or category to which the person belongs rather than according to any actual merit? A woman can't marry women, but a man can, because she's a woman and somehow that's not discriminating against her because she's a woman due to..........?
    lets cut to the chase.

    I understand levels of scrutiny, and I understand why you and others think banning SSM is gender discrimination, and why that should be denied via the EPC. My point is that the state is able to categorize people for the purpose of applying the EPC and it is recognized that under certain circumstances, equal protection doesn't necessarily apply. I don't agree that just because a person is not allowed to do something another person can do that it is discrimination. I also believe that under the constitution, American society is allowed to impose it's morals on itself except when such imposition directly opposes the constitution.

    And except for the fact the private firearm ownership is constitutionally allowed, I don't care about it.
    Last edited by mac; 05-31-11 at 06:09 PM.
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    In response to mac - drawing the line between juvenile/minor and adult at the age of 18 is based on psychological studies. CC can probably answer the question better than I can, but it has to do with brain development and maturity level. I mean, the line has to be drawn somewhere.
    From what I understand, the human brain doesn't stop developing until around the age of 25....
    ”People willing to trade their freedom for temporary security deserve neither and will lose both.” --- Ben Franklin

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    Sterotypes are mostly based on truths.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    If nobody can offer a credible list of what social damages are imposed on this nations by gay marriage...then what's the point of this thread?

    If there are no social consequences caused by gay marriage...then what the hell would induce hundreds to post on this topic?

    All we're left with is...If a person believes it's immoral...don't ****do it. What else is there to say?
    Well, if I was ptif I would reply that gay parents will make their kids gay and thus we would have an increasing population and age demographic crisis on our hands.

    but I'm not ptif.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    lets cut to the chase.

    I understand levels of scrutiny, and I understand why you and others think banning SSM is gender discrimination, and why that should be denied via the EPC. My point is that the state is able to categorize people for the purpose of applying the EPC and it is recognized that under certain circumstances, equal protection doesn't necessarily apply. I don't agree that just because a person is not allowed to do something another person can do that it is discrimination. I also believe that under the constitution, American society is allowed to impose it's morals on itself accept when such imposition directly opposes the constitution.

    And except for the fact the private firearm ownership is constitutionally allowed, I don't care about it.
    Only to a very limited degree. In my discussions with both legal professors and lawyers, there has to be shown just cause for the discrimination. As I understand it, if there is no just cause, no argument of a just reason for the discrimination, society cannot impose their moral values.

    And would we want them to? Think for a minute if you're on the other side of such a thing?

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    From what I understand, the human brain doesn't stop developing until around the age of 25....
    I think the question that's being asked is at what point is an individual completely responsible for his/her own decisions, as opposed to being totally susceptible to the influence and control of others. 18 is where the psychologists suggested that the legal system draw the line.

    that being said, there are plenty of people older than 25 who act like children (as evidenced by this forum), so what the hell do I know lol.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I think the question that's being asked is at what point is an individual completely responsible for his/her own decisions, as opposed to being totally susceptible to the influence and control of others. 18 is where the psychologists suggested that the legal system draw the line.

    that being said, there are plenty of people older than 25 who act like children (as evidenced by this forum), so what the hell do I know lol.
    All true. But I would argue if we're going to draw a line, and we should, I'd go with where the brain is developed. Of course, young folks make better grunts in the military, for example, largely because they are more able to be molded.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    From what I understand, the human brain doesn't stop developing until around the age of 25....
    From what I been reading thus far...not to many will ever make it to full blown development - regardless of their age.

    Still nobody has given any reasonable list of the social damage caused by gay marriage. Amazing...all this BS for nothing.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Removable Mind View Post
    If nobody can offer a credible list of what social damages are imposed on this nations by gay marriage...then what's the point of this thread?

    If there are no social consequences caused by gay marriage...then what the hell would induce hundreds to post on this topic?

    All we're left with is...If a person believes it's immoral...don't ****do it. What else is there to say?
    What? You don't buy the centaur argument? It's clearly true. If you allow same sex marriage, next thing you know you have to allow bestiality. And if you allow bestiality, then some dude will marry a horse and guess what you get when a dude ****s a horse. A centaur. This is all clear and measured science. Duh.

    But in reality, there's little to no data to indicate what would happen. I think the most probable outcome would be nothing. People are free to believe it's immoral till the cows come home. They can stand on the corner and preach it till they are blue in the face. What they cannot do is use government force to stop it; which is what is being done currently. It's the use of government force against the rights and liberties of the individual with no proof of harm demonstrated. It's a bit sad that people feel their righteous indignation has place in law.
    You know the time is right to take control, we gotta take offense against the status quo

    Quote Originally Posted by A. de Tocqueville
    "I should have loved freedom, I believe, at all times, but in the time in which we live I am ready to worship it."

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