View Poll Results: Same-sex marriage is wrong because

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • It isn't, and should be available to all gay couples

    77 68.14%
  • Being gay is wrong, so they can't get married

    16 14.16%
  • The sanctity of marriage. No, I wasn't laughing. I was coughing. *cough* ... see?

    4 3.54%
  • It will set a bad example for Christian youth

    0 0%
  • I don't honestly have a good reason, but I still say no

    1 0.88%
  • Other (please explain)

    15 13.27%
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Thread: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

  1. #1511
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    No offense but everything I have referred to I am talking about the US so Im not interested in other countries Im talking about here.
    Civil union is not unique to the United States, and even in the US, it means different things in different states, so you cannot make a broad statement about what it is in the US. And, I did state that they were only recognized in the state which the license is issued.

    In Vermont:
    On December 20, 1999 the Vermont Supreme Court ruled in Baker v. Vermont that same-sex couples are “entitled under Chapter I, Article 7, of the Vermont Constitution to obtain the same benefits and protections afforded by Vermont law to married opposite-sex couples”.



    I know everything I need to know to debate my statements and how they work in the US, he doesnt and you didnt because you made two inaccurate ones.
    Apparently you think you do, but "see above" and it appears you don't, or "see below" in NJ, and it is obvious you don't.

    I dont know how my statements stand outside the US nor do I care as I wasnt debating that.
    Well, even in the US, they don't mean the same thing in every state. And your statement that they are not the same as a marriage is a big "FAIL" in NJ and Vt, because in NJ and Vt it affords the same rights as a marriage, even though just in that state.

    The legislation was passed in response to the New Jersey Supreme Court's decision in Lewis vs. Harris, 188 N.J. 415 (2006). That Court unanimously held that "committed same-sex couples must be afforded on equal terms the same rights and benefits enjoyed by married opposite-sex couples." The subsequent Act, as stated in section 4, gives partners in civil union couples "all of the same benefits, protections and responsibilities under the law, whether they derive from statute, administrative or court rule, public policy, common law or any other source of civil law, as are granted to spouses in a marriage." Section 5n of the Act provides that "legal benefits, protections and responsibilities of spouses shall apply in like manner to civil union couples" to "laws relating to taxes imposed by the State or a municipality including but not limited to homestead rebate tax allowances, tax deductions based on marital status or exemptions from realty transfer tax based on marital status."
    NJ Division of Taxation - Civil Union Act

    Thanks for repeating all the stuff I already said and YEAAAA you dont know people that would do that but the fact remains they do.
    No, you didn't say all the stuff that I said. And, people that are doing the "for-show" ceremonies, those are not marriages, so even if they are doing it, they know it's not real, and it is not real, so comparing them to "marriage" is a misnomer on your part.

    Also there are many people that hold their religion true and dear and the religious marriage without the legal part is just a valuable to THEM!, Its not your decision "if its real or not"
    It doesn't matter whether I think it is real, or whether the couple thinks it is real, the STATE, which is what we are talking about, does not recognize it as real, and that is what really matters because if the STATE doesn't recognize your marriage, you are not married, no matter how "real" it is to you.

    Its not legally recognized but its real to THEM, you dont get to decide what is important or matter to them LOL Calling it a charade is pompous and ignorant.
    It may be real to them, but in the eyes of the law, it isn't. And, FYI, I'm not deciding what is important and what isn't, I'm telling you it is not legal, and therefore, not real, no matter how important it may be to "them". And, it is a charade, because they are only fooling themselves, nobody else considers them married. (Unless they fool people into thinking it is a legal ceremony, which then makes them dishonest on top of being foolish).

    Again repeating stuff I said I agree the religious body or any body must do the LEGAL steps with out them there is no LEGAL marriage.
    I consider religious marriage to be exactly what it is, a RELIGIOUS marriage. Here in the US there are people that are in fact religiously married and not legally married.
    I don't know what religion allows that, but in the Christian religion, you are not "religiously married" if you are not legally married because God (of the Christians) does not recognize a marriage if it is not legal. In Malaki, God says marriage is a covenant, witnessed and sealed by HIM, and being that a covenant is religious by nature it should be presided over by a religious official. A true "religious official" would not participate in a fake ceremony. Marriage is an institution not to be taken lightly, a union of the highest honor (Heb 13:4), and since God tells us to obey the laws of the land, we are to obey and respect the customs associated with Biblical marriage.

    Our laws recognize the holy union of marriage (point number 1), require it to be between a man and a woman (point number 2), recognizes the covenant nature of marriage by sanctioning clergy to perform marriage ceremonies (point number 3), and requires witnesses (point number 4). Therefore, in order to give marriage proper honor and to render the proper respect to the governing authorities, legal marriage is both required and appropriate. It does not follow that legal marriage is not necessary in today's society.

    Read more: Must Marriage be Legal to be Blessed by God? - Come Reason Ministries


    this typo/mistakes changes what about the facts I posted again? lol nothing, good catch, funny but has no impact.
    A typo is typing the wrong letter or omitting one, you actually added "in" - but go ahead and pretend you knew all along.

    thanks again for repeating things I have already said in the thread LOL
    I added the necessary words to make it correct, so, no, I wasn't repeating what you said, because your statements were short on all the facts.

    Thats your OPINION but religious only marriages can be and are already performed here in the US
    Like I pointed out, if it is not a legal marriage, it is not a marriage at all. You can call it that, but it isn't. And, God does not recognize "fake" marriages. He doesn't approve of "fornication" and that is exactly what a "fake" marriage leads to. And, I repeat, if it is not a "legal" marriage, even if done in a church, it is not a marriage at all. The church ceremony does not have to be legal at the time it is performed, but it must be made legal soon after in order for God and STATE to recognize it.



    uhm who said mention god makes it a religious ceremony alone? not me nor is it me that is capable of answering that for ALL people. Maybe thats all some people need, its not my decision how they view their ceremony.
    I'm speaking for Christian marriages, and in order for them to be "religious" they have to follow the rules of the Christian church. I really don't care what Buddhist, Muslims, Hindus and whatever other religion you are talking about do or believe.

    If you say so but the fact remains you made false inaccurate statements when you said:

    "In certain states, a civil union provides the same benefits as a legal marriage."
    wrong, not in any united states because civil unions are not as concrete.
    The fact remains that you are making an inaccurate statement when you claim that my statement was inaccurate. I stated that they were only apply in that state, and in Vt and NJ, they do. That they are not recognized by the Fed Gov or other states is a fact, but they could make them so, if that is what the nation wanted to do.



    P.L. 2006, Chapter 103, the Civil Union Act, was signed into law on December 21, 2006, and takes effect on February 19, 2007. The Act establishes "civil unions" for couples of the same sex.

    The legislation was passed in response to the New Jersey Supreme Court's decision in Lewis vs. Harris, 188 N.J. 415 (2006). That Court unanimously held that "committed same-sex couples must be afforded on equal terms the same rights and benefits enjoyed by married opposite-sex couples." The subsequent Act, as stated in section 4, gives partners in civil union couples "all of the same benefits, protections and responsibilities under the law, whether they derive from statute, administrative or court rule, public policy, common law or any other source of civil law, as are granted to spouses in a marriage." Section 5n of the Act provides that "legal benefits, protections and responsibilities of spouses shall apply in like manner to civil union couples" to "laws relating to taxes imposed by the State or a municipality including but not limited to homestead rebate tax allowances, tax deductions based on marital status or exemptions from realty transfer tax based on marital status."

    Section 92 of the Act provides that "Whenever in any law, rule, regulation, judicial or administrative proceeding or otherwise, reference is made to "marriage," "husband," "wife," "spouse," "family," "immediate family," "dependent," "next of kin," "widow," "widower," "widowed" or another word which in a specific context denotes a marital or spousal relationship, the same shall include a civil union pursuant to the provisions of this act."



    On December 20, 1999 the Vermont Supreme Court ruled in Baker v. Vermont that same-sex couples are “entitled under Chapter I, Article 7, of the Vermont Constitution to obtain the same benefits and protections afforded by Vermont law to married opposite-sex couples”.

    and

    "People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state"
    wrong unless they do the LEGAL part they are in fact not.
    Er, I didn't say that, so quit making crap up. Here is what I said, so thanks for twisting it into something else.

    Originally Posted by mertex
    Without power given by the state and no license, there is no legal marriage whether performed in the church or elsewhere.
    So next time maybe you will say stuff that is correct and I wont have to inform you that its false
    Considering that I have proved you wrong in New Jersey and Vt - and the fact that you twist what I say and turn it into something else, and you don't even know what the preacher/clergy say when marrying people, I don't think you need to be informing me of anything. Next time try to find out what the context of a debate between two posters is, so you don't make assumptions and quote stuff that you think is "meant" when it wasn't said at all.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  2. #1512
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post



    Heres the FACTS, not my opinion, that you can not change:
    "Legal marriage and religious marriage are totally separate" Fact
    "Religion has nothing to do with legal marriage." Fact
    "Legal marriage has nothing to do with Religious marriage" Fact
    "God and RELIGIOUS marriage are connected, God is MEANINGLESS to LEGAL marriage." Fact
    I hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong in all cases!

    1. Legal marriage can take place in a religious ceremony, ergo, not separate at all. (I got married in the church and my marriage was very legal, as soon as the clergy signed and returned the license to the state).
    2. Religion was the basis for "marriage" to begin with, so it has everything to do with marriage, and God only recognizes legal marriages (unless you are talking of some religion other than Christianity, if so, state what religion you are talking about).
    3. Legal marriage has everything to do with religion if done in a religious ceremony.
    4. Religious marriages (to be considered marriages) must be legal, and God has everything to do with them, ergo, your statement that God is meaningless in a legal marriage is laughable.



    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
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  3. #1513
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    I hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong in all cases!

    1. Legal marriage can take place in a religious ceremony, ergo, not separate at all. (I got married in the church and my marriage was very legal, as soon as the clergy signed and returned the license to the state).
    2. Religion was the basis for "marriage" to begin with, so it has everything to do with marriage, and God only recognizes legal marriages (unless you are talking of some religion other than Christianity, if so, state what religion you are talking about).
    3. Legal marriage has everything to do with religion if done in a religious ceremony.
    4. Religious marriages (to be considered marriages) must be legal, and God has everything to do with them, ergo, your statement that God is meaningless in a legal marriage is laughable.
    You are, for the most part, wrong. While I wouldn't say that they are totally separate, they are much more separate than they are joined. It is more like they are running parallel to each other in a married couple's life, those that have a personal marriage at all that is. Either could exist without the other one.

    Legal marriage is only about the legal rights and responsibilities that the government bestows upon anyone who enters into a legal marriage with a marriage license. With or without a ceremony, God, clergy, religion, the marriage license has to be signed by someone authorized by the government to do so. There are some exceptions to this, depending on the state, but generally it is expected that people obtain a marriage license before they get the ceremonial marriage if they expect to be considered legally married from that point.

    Marriage licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Most historical records show that some form of marriage existed prior to all modern religions, including Christianity. And even in Christianity, marriage was between a couple and God alone early on. It did not involve a clergy, or anyone else for that matter, to bless a couple's union.

    Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    History of Marriage
    Marriage, a History | Psychology Today

    Having a religious ceremony or not does not change any of the legal aspects, responsibilities, benefits, or rights that are granted to a couple through the marriage license. As I said before, it is more like they are running parallel to one another, rather than actually connected.

    And there are definitely churches, even in the US, that consider a couple to be married even if they do not have a legal marriage license. There are a lot of same sex couples who have already been through a religious ceremony so that they are considered married by the eyes of their church and/or family and friends. There are also polygamous groups who may legally marry one wife, but also marry other wives in a religious ceremony only. They too are seen as married in the eyes of their church, and family and friends.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  4. #1514
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    I hate to burst your bubble, but you are wrong in all cases!

    1. Legal marriage can take place in a religious ceremony, ergo, not separate at all. (I got married in the church and my marriage was very legal, as soon as the clergy signed and returned the license to the state).
    2. Religion was the basis for "marriage" to begin with, so it has everything to do with marriage, and God only recognizes legal marriages (unless you are talking of some religion other than Christianity, if so, state what religion you are talking about).
    3. Legal marriage has everything to do with religion if done in a religious ceremony.
    4. Religious marriages (to be considered marriages) must be legal, and God has everything to do with them, ergo, your statement that God is meaningless in a legal marriage is laughable.
    1.) who said they wouldnt be? still means they are separate because you had to do the LEGAL steps also.
    2.) your opinion and once it became legal they became separate. Funny theres christians on this very board that have a different OPINION and so does their church.
    3.)you cant use the adjective legal then use the adjective religious and then say they are the same LMAO They are in fact separate steps, them may be performed together at times but the separate(individual) steps must be done.
    4.) again nothing more than your false opinion but you are right, it is laughable. Also I didnt say god is meaningless to "them" I only said he is meaningless ot legal marriage.

    sorry I am 100% right because ONE can NOT grant the OTHER, simple common sense, logic and FACT LMAO

    meaning, NO religious marriage grants you LEGAL marriage without doing the LEGAL steps. FACT

    and NO Legal marriage grants you religious marriage without doing the religious steps. FACT

    i cant get married by a singing Elvis in vegas then come back home and just claim a religious marriage.LOL

    I cant only do the religious ceremony and then just claim legal marriage.

    this two facts make them separate. Do people MIX them, yes but the fact remains they are separate.



    Im not going to respond to your other thread, I basically skimmed through it and giggled. Its all twisted nonsense, babbling, you arguing things nobody said, you repeating things I already said like they support you and most importantly theydo NOTHING to change my stated facts LOL. I do LOVE your back pedals though and how you add qualifiers to everything after it gets proved wrong. Like saying "oh I only meant Christianity I don not care about other religions" LMAO

    also that fact remains you absolutely did say "People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state" its a direct quote from you so feel to wipe the egg off your face and apologize or just look more silly.

    See your last sentence in post 1399

    I know its hard to admit you totally misunderstood everything you read cause you got emotional, it happens. Comprehension isnt your strong suit and my facts stand

    The proof is in this thread and no matter how many meaningless points you try to debate or deflects you make isnt going to work. LOL

    Heres the FACTS, not my opinion, that you can not change:
    "Legal marriage and religious marriage are totally separate" Fact
    "Religion has nothing to do with legal marriage." Fact
    "Legal marriage has nothing to do with Religious marriage" Fact
    "God and RELIGIOUS marriage are connected, God is MEANINGLESS to LEGAL marriage." Fact

    Your issues are not seeing the adjectives Legal and Religious and understanding while they may be used together they dont GRANT each other and LEGAL marriage doesnt care about religious marriage or god one bit. Just the facts.

    How you and your church view your religion may have a different opinion but the law doesnt care. Neither do other people, their places of worship and how they view their religion.

    Let me know when you have anything that changes those facts not just opinion and semantics.
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  5. #1515
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    You are, for the most part, wrong. While I wouldn't say that they are totally separate, they are much more separate than they are joined. It is more like they are running parallel to each other in a married couple's life, those that have a personal marriage at all that is. Either could exist without the other one.

    Legal marriage is only about the legal rights and responsibilities that the government bestows upon anyone who enters into a legal marriage with a marriage license. With or without a ceremony, God, clergy, religion, the marriage license has to be signed by someone authorized by the government to do so. There are some exceptions to this, depending on the state, but generally it is expected that people obtain a marriage license before they get the ceremonial marriage if they expect to be considered legally married from that point.

    Marriage licence - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Most historical records show that some form of marriage existed prior to all modern religions, including Christianity. And even in Christianity, marriage was between a couple and God alone early on. It did not involve a clergy, or anyone else for that matter, to bless a couple's union.

    Marriage - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    History of Marriage
    Marriage, a History | Psychology Today

    Having a religious ceremony or not does not change any of the legal aspects, responsibilities, benefits, or rights that are granted to a couple through the marriage license. As I said before, it is more like they are running parallel to one another, rather than actually connected.

    And there are definitely churches, even in the US, that consider a couple to be married even if they do not have a legal marriage license. There are a lot of same sex couples who have already been through a religious ceremony so that they are considered married by the eyes of their church and/or family and friends. There are also polygamous groups who may legally marry one wife, but also marry other wives in a religious ceremony only. They too are seen as married in the eyes of their church, and family and friends.
    Common sense and facts at its finest.
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  6. #1516
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    1.) who said they wouldnt be? still means they are separate because you had to do the LEGAL steps also.
    No, there are no extra steps, you get the license, the preacher marries you, he signs it, returns it and "Voila" you are married. No other steps necessary. If you marry outside the church, the JOP performs the marriage, signs the license and returns it - same as the religious ceremony.
    2.) your opinion and once it became legal they became separate. Funny theres christians on this very board that have a different OPINION and so does their church.
    Your opinion, once it became legal that was it! No other steps necessary.
    3.)you cant use the adjective legal then use the adjective religious and then say they are the same LMAO They are in fact separate steps, them may be performed together at times but the separate(individual) steps must be done.
    The religious ceremonies are all legal at the time they are being performed, unless they are fake ceremonies like the ones that you mention and those don't count, they are neither religious nor legal, they are a farce.
    4.) again nothing more than your false opinion but you are right, it is laughable. Also I didnt say god is meaningless to "them" I only said he is meaningless ot legal marriage.
    You are the one pushing a false opinion, trying to make farce marriage compare to real marriages. The only difference between a religious ceremony and a non-religious ceremony is where they take place, if there is a license involved, they are both legal at the time they are being performed, considering that both signed licenses have to be turned back in, for the marriage to be recorded in the court, which makes them legal.

    sorry I am 100% right because ONE can NOT grant the OTHER, simple common sense, logic and FACT LMAO
    You are wrong, but obviously you are going to hold on to your wrong opinion, LOL is right!
    meaning, NO religious marriage grants you LEGAL marriage without doing the LEGAL steps. FACT
    And what are the legal steps that you speak of? All licenses have to be signed and returned to be legal - no different a religious ceremony from a non-religious ceremony.

    and NO Legal marriage grants you religious marriage without doing the religious steps. FACT
    You are confusing the word "legal" with non-religious. Both religious and non-religious are legal if done right, and your opinion is worthless, you don't know what you are talking about.

    i cant get married by a singing Elvis in vegas then come back home and just claim a religious marriage.LOL
    What you have if married by singing Elvis is a non-religious ceremony, unless the license is returned signed by Elvis, you are not married, religious or not.

    I cant only do the religious ceremony and then just claim legal marriage.
    Obviously you don't know anything about marriages. The religious ceremony is legal if there is a license and it is signed by the preacher/priest and returned to the county courthouse. A marriage that takes place in a church is a legal marriage, and we're not talking about those fake ones done in psuedo churches.
    this two facts make them separate. Do people MIX them, yes but the fact remains they are separate.
    They are separate only in your head. You are confusing a non-religious ceremony with "legal" - when both religious and non-religious are legal if done right, getting a license, having the official sign it and return it to the courthouse. You're confused!


    Im not going to respond to your other thread, I basically skimmed through it and giggled. Its all twisted nonsense, babbling, you arguing things nobody said, you repeating things I already said like they support you and most importantly theydo NOTHING to change my stated facts LOL. I do LOVE your back pedals though and how you add qualifiers to everything after it gets proved wrong. Like saying "oh I only meant Christianity I don not care about other religions" LMAO
    You don't answer because you don't have a leg to stand on. You've confused the whole issue of religious and non-religious with "legal" marriage, when a legal marriage can be done in a church or outside the church - as long as they follow the rules of the state, either one is a "legal" marriage. Sorry - go look it up, I know I am right and you are totally confused.

    also that fact remains you absolutely did say "People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state" its a direct quote from you so feel to wipe the egg off your face and apologize or just look more silly.
    The one needing to wipe egg off their face is you, because obviously you also have comprehension problems, as some other poster already pointed out. I said people getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state, if they do what is required. There is nothing wrong with my statement, just that you didn't comprehend it and that is your problem not mine.

    And, your acting like a child is further proof that you have a problem comprehending what is being said. You twist things and make false statements and then attribute them to others. I quoted what I said, so shame on you for making crap up.

    See your last sentence in post 1399
    I don't have to go back and look, I know what I've been saying all along, and you aren't going to confuse religious with non-religious and call the non-religious legal, because it is no more legal than a religious ceremony if the proper steps aren't taken.


    I know its hard to admit you totally misunderstood everything you read cause you got emotional, it happens. Comprehension isnt your strong suit and my facts stand
    Like the other poster already pointed out - your whole basis for arguing is to flamebait. Unfortunately for you, I'm not immature and act like a child, who doesn't comprehend and then acts like they did and the other person didn't. You need to own up to your behavior.

    The proof is in this thread and no matter how many meaningless points you try to debate or deflects you make isnt going to work. LOL
    The proof that I'm right and that you have taken the whole issue and confused it.
    All marriages that are recorded in the courthouse are "legal" - whether they were performed in a church or outside the church. Get that through your head.

    Heres the FACTS, not my opinion, that you can not change:
    "Legal marriage and religious marriage are totally separate" Fact
    "Religion has nothing to do with legal marriage." Fact
    "Legal marriage has nothing to do with Religious marriage" Fact
    "God and RELIGIOUS marriage are connected, God is MEANINGLESS to LEGAL marriage." Fact
    Repeating them doesn't make them change into fact. You are wrong and are too immature to accept it.

    Your issues are not seeing the adjectives Legal and Religious and understanding while they may be used together they dont GRANT each other and LEGAL marriage doesnt care about religious marriage or god one bit. Just the facts.
    Well, you got the facts wrong. A religious ceremony and a non-religious ceremony can both produce a "legal marriage" if the steps of the state are followed. So, you are totally off-base saying religious ceremonies don't produce legal marriages, I'm laughing my head off at your inane statements.

    How you and your church view your religion may have a different opinion but the law doesnt care. Neither do other people, their places of worship and how they view their religion.
    All religions have to follow the same steps, it isn't a matter of my religion or someone else's, it is the "state's" rules, not the churches. Another fail for you!

    Let me know when you have anything that changes those facts not just opinion and semantics.
    I don't want to confuse you even further with facts. You just don't get it!
    Religious ceremonies produce legal marriages just like non-religious ceremonies do, if done according to the state rules. That you are making them into two separate items is laughable.

    Let me know when you get someone that has no comprehension problems explain it to you, because then you may be able to figure out that what you are saying is totally insane.



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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    1.)No, there are no extra steps, you get the license, the preacher marries you, he signs it, returns it and "Voila" you are married. No other steps necessary. If you marry outside the church, the JOP performs the marriage, signs the license and returns it - same as the religious ceremony.

    2.)Your opinion, once it became legal that was it! No other steps necessary.

    3.)The religious ceremonies are all legal at the time they are being performed, unless they are fake ceremonies like the ones that you mention and those don't count, they are neither religious nor legal, they are a farce.

    4.)You are the one pushing a false opinion, trying to make farce marriage compare to real marriages. The only difference between a religious ceremony and a non-religious ceremony is where they take place, if there is a license involved, they are both legal at the time they are being performed, considering that both signed licenses have to be turned back in, for the marriage to be recorded in the court, which makes them legal.


    5.)You are wrong, but obviously you are going to hold on to your wrong opinion, LOL is right!

    6.) And what are the legal steps that you speak of? All licenses have to be signed and returned to be legal - no different a religious ceremony from a non-religious ceremony.


    7.)You are confusing the word "legal" with non-religious. Both religious and non-religious are legal if done right, and your opinion is worthless, you don't know what you are talking about.


    8.)What you have if married by singing Elvis is a non-religious ceremony, unless the license is returned signed by Elvis, you are not married, religious or not.


    9.) Obviously you don't know anything about marriages. The religious ceremony is legal if there is a license and it is signed by the preacher/priest and returned to the county courthouse. A marriage that takes place in a church is a legal marriage, and we're not talking about those fake ones done in psuedo churches.

    10.) They are separate only in your head. You are confusing a non-religious ceremony with "legal" - when both religious and non-religious are legal if done right, getting a license, having the official sign it and return it to the courthouse. You're confused!



    11.)You don't answer because you don't have a leg to stand on. You've confused the whole issue of religious and non-religious with "legal" marriage, when a legal marriage can be done in a church or outside the church - as long as they follow the rules of the state, either one is a "legal" marriage. Sorry - go look it up, I know I am right and you are totally confused.


    12.)The one needing to wipe egg off their face is you, because obviously you also have comprehension problems, as some other poster already pointed out. I said people getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state, if they do what is required. There is nothing wrong with my statement, just that you didn't comprehend it and that is your problem not mine.

    13.) And, your acting like a child is further proof that you have a problem comprehending what is being said. You twist things and make false statements and then attribute them to others. I quoted what I said, so shame on you for making crap up.


    14.) I don't have to go back and look, I know what I've been saying all along, and you aren't going to confuse religious with non-religious and call the non-religious legal, because it is no more legal than a religious ceremony if the proper steps aren't taken.



    15.)Like the other poster already pointed out - your whole basis for arguing is to flamebait. Unfortunately for you, I'm not immature and act like a child, who doesn't comprehend and then acts like they did and the other person didn't. You need to own up to your behavior.


    16.)The proof that I'm right and that you have taken the whole issue and confused it.
    All marriages that are recorded in the courthouse are "legal" - whether they were performed in a church or outside the church. Get that through your head.


    17.)Repeating them doesn't make them change into fact. You are wrong and are too immature to accept it.


    18.)Well, you got the facts wrong. A religious ceremony and a non-religious ceremony can both produce a "legal marriage" if the steps of the state are followed. So, you are totally off-base saying religious ceremonies don't produce legal marriages, I'm laughing my head off at your inane statements.


    19.)All religions have to follow the same steps, it isn't a matter of my religion or someone else's, it is the "state's" rules, not the churches. Another fail for you!



    20.)I don't want to confuse you even further with facts. You just don't get it!
    Religious ceremonies produce legal marriages just like non-religious ceremonies do, if done according to the state rules. That you are making them into two separate items is laughable.

    21.)Let me know when you get someone that has no comprehension problems explain it to you, because then you may be able to figure out that what you are saying is totally insane.
    Do you live in america? Its like you have no sense of reality at all. Lets go through these lies and total misunderstanding you have.

    1.) WRONG legal steps MUST be done, this is a fact. Sorry no matter how you spin it LEGAL step have to be done to get LEGAL marriage. You even mention the LICENSE, thats is a LEGAL extra step LMAO

    2.) You have comprehension issues, you admit it took a license to become legal because the church was granted power by the state(another LEGAL step) and then try to say no other steps are need????? do you even read what you are typing?

    the license? LEGAL STEP
    the power granted to the church? LEGAL STEP
    what arent YOU understanding? LOL

    3.) again Im starting to think you arent from America. The churches have a constitutional right to marry anybody they want to religiously. This is a fact you can not change and your opinion on whether they are a farce or not also doesnt matter. The people getting religiously married and the church doing doesnt care what YOU think LOL and NO not all religious ceremonies are also LEGAL marriages, sorry you are misinformed again no matter what YOUR church does.

    4.) Wrong again. Im am talking about FACTS and reality you are talking about some fantasy land. NEWS FLASH, the license is a LEGAL process. LEEEEEEGAAAAAAL lol and marriages are in fact performed with out them. Wow. Again your opinion that these religious ceremonies dont matter if they dont do the legal steps is meaningless and quite frankly ignorant.

    5.) No matter what you believe what I said is a fact, id LOVE to hear proof that its not, back it up like I did, so far you have offered nothing. One can exist without the other, that makes it a fact. Ill state this fact again. "ONE can NOT grant the OTHER, simple common sense, logic and FACT"

    argue against it, ill be waiting

    6.) how do you not understand the LICENSE is the LEGAL part? You keep saying it like its not the Legal part? LOL

    7.) Im not confusing anything you obviously aren't from here and dont understand that the license is the legal part.
    Religious marriages can happen without a license
    Legal marriage can not.

    8.) Yes am I aware its a non-religious marriage and thats my whole point LMAO that doesn't grant me a religious marriage making them SEPARATE. And yes I know I need to do the LEGAL steps to be LEGALLY married NOBODY is arguing that so stop saying common sense things to make yourself look right it wont work.

    9.) Did you just mention the county court house (something LEGAL) in argument that religious marriage and legal marriage are NOT separate? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA thanks for once again putting egg on you face. Like I said LEGAL steps need made. But you are right "im" the one confused LMAO Oh brother. You just admitted without the court house (legal step) there is no LEGAL marriage. and this is why they are separate. Fact all marriages performed in churches are NOT legal marriages without the LEGAL steps. FACT

    also your opinion of what is a church and what isnt is meaningless, ignorant and bigoted. You have no right to call another church a pseudo church just cause you dont agree with them. Another reason I dont believe you are american.

    10.) Im not confused one bit I understand the reality fine and you just repeated it for me and dont even know it. LEGAL marriage needs LEGAL steps, without them there is no LEGAL marriage. This is a fact and what makes them separate. There is no religious step that is out there that grants me a LEGAL marriage.

    11.) No i didnt answer because it was pure nonsensical babbling.
    you just again said stuff that supports me that doesnt hurt me. You said they must follow the rules of the state LMOA TADAAAAAA! thats what makes them desperate. ALso no one every argued against this. But the LEGAL steps must be done of there is no LEGAL marriage. This is a GREAT attempt to save face but it wont work, you misspoke and said things that werent true just move on or man uo and admit it LOL

    12.) THAT IS A BOLD FACE LIE! you are no trying to add your statement to save face and change the debate LMAO

    this is your quote "People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state"
    no matter what you say its right there in print. You said this and there is not mention of "as long as they follow the rules of the state" HAHAHAH that is something you are trying to add NOW because you know your original statement was WRONG.

    If you said that first me educating you on how legal marriage works would have never happened LOL nice try but I quoted you exactly and now you are trying to say you didn't say it. Thats just sad.

    13.) this is just a deflection by you because you in FACT did say that quote. it in post 1399 and that wont change so the only one lying is you. You quoted what you said and then you ADDED to it to save face. The problem is everybody can go to post 1399 and see your whole second addition is NOT there LMAO

    14.) you wont go back because it proves me right and now you are trying to change your argument LOl nice try

    15.) more deflection, let me know when you can argue against the facts a posted and own up to your wrong statement.
    Or you can side with that ONE other poster while me and the others stick to reality and facts

    16.) LMAO this I dont have to get that through my head because, read this slow. NOBODY EVER ARGUED AGAINST WHAT YOU JUST SAID lol

    nice try but I never said this wasnt true in any shape way or form. In fact its what Ive been saying and now you are trying to claim you also agree even though you argued against it.

    Thanks you fro finally admitting that the LEGAL steps must be made and thats what makes them separate

    17.) nope all my facts I stated stand has you havnt disproved one of them. you have only deflected, back pedaled, lied and changed you story. Shall I list them again?

    18.) again YOU trying to change the argument LOL nobody said that religious ceremonies CANT produce legal marriages NOBODY. Ive said since the beginning that the LEGAL steps needed to be made, you even asked me sarcastically in this very post what they were like they didn't exist HAHAHAHAHAH Do you think everything you wrote is just going to disappear?

    19.) LMAO again more statements like you that nobody every argued. Im glad you finally agree though.
    You are right ALL religion must do the LEGAL streps to be LEGALLY married.

    THANKS FOR PLAYING THAT BEEN MY ARGUMENT THE ENTIRE TIME lol

    20.) yes I know to bad you argued against that earlier and are trying to change your story.

    21.) let me know when you can argue against my facts that I stated, own up to that what you said was wrong and when you wont back pedal, change you story and LIE about what you actually said even though its in post 1399 LMAO

    Ill give you credit for trying to confuse everybody in this thread by first saying:
    "People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state"
    then saying:
    "there are no extra steps needed"
    then asking sarcastically:
    "what are the legal steps that you speak of? " like they dont exist hahah thats brilliant
    then coming back and adding stuff and saying:
    "No, there are no extra steps, you get the license, the preacher marries you, he signs it, returns it and "Voila" you are married. No other steps necessary."

    WHAT?! did you just squeeeeeze in "get a license" which is a EXTRA(non religious) legal step like no one would notice!!???

    Wow that probably would work on stupid people but since your post history is here and Im well aware of what we both said, I even qouted you it failed, big time.

    Lmao what a joke. My statements stand and the fact is you made a false one in post 1399
    these facts wont change
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
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  8. #1518
    Don't Mess With Texas
    mertex's Avatar
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    Do you live in america? Its like you have no sense of reality at all. Lets go through these lies and total misunderstanding you have.

    Blah, blah, blah. Not even going to bother to read your nonsense.
    When you learn the difference between religious and non-religious ceremonies and stop calling one of them legal and the other not legal, maybe you'll be able to write something credible, until then, like the other poster said, you are disingenuous and not worth debating with, just major fail!






    "I have been thinking that I would make a proposition to my Republican friends... that if they will stop telling lies about the Democrats, we will stop telling the truth about them."
    --Adlai Stevenson, Politician





  9. #1519
    I'm kind of a big deal

    AGENT J's Avatar
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. Not even going to bother to read your nonsense.
    When you learn the difference between religious and non-religious ceremonies and stop calling one of them legal and the other not legal, maybe you'll be able to write something credible, until then, like the other poster said, you are disingenuous and not worth debating with, just major fail!


    No one called "them" legal and non legal just another thing you made up to try and save face

    Thats what I though, you got NOTHING LMAO

    and like about 20 posters said you two just dont understand the law and separate, you cant reply because there's egg all over your face and I wasnt dumb enough to let you back pedal, change the subject or deflect LMAO. Nice try though. Problem is the thread is still here and so are your lies and inaccurate statements for all to see.


    When you are ready to dispute my facts and admit you said inaccurate claims let me know

    Religious and non religious have NO BARRING on the subject at hand that LEGAL marriage is separate form everything else.

    Religious marriage is NOT legal marriage
    Non-religious marriage is NOT legal marriage
    ONLY LEGAL MARRIAGE IS LEGAL MARRIAGE.

    No other type of marriage is LEGAL without taking the LEGAL steps, this is a fact that you either dont get, choose to ignore or you are simply acting dumb to save face, but again I wont let you

    Just man up and admit your statement of
    "People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state"

    is 100% wrong and inaccurate, they will NEVER be legally married without the legal steps.

    We will all be waiting for you to man up
    This space is currently owned by The Great Winchester, stay tuned for future messages!
    Make America Great Again!
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  10. #1520
    Sage
    CriticalThought's Avatar
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    Blah, blah, blah. Not even going to bother to read your nonsense.
    When you learn the difference between religious and non-religious ceremonies and stop calling one of them legal and the other not legal, maybe you'll be able to write something credible, until then, like the other poster said, you are disingenuous and not worth debating with, just major fail!]
    Generally to perform a legal marriage the person needs to be a recognized member of the clergy (minister, priest, rabbi, etc); a judge, a Justice of the Peace and in some states a court clerk can hold that authority.

    A religious marriage is generally considered a marriage presided over by a priest and a civil marriage is usually considered one that is presided over by a judge.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bucky View Post
    The economy will improve under this bill. If a few people die, it will be for the betterament of this country.

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