View Poll Results: Same-sex marriage is wrong because

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • It isn't, and should be available to all gay couples

    77 68.14%
  • Being gay is wrong, so they can't get married

    16 14.16%
  • The sanctity of marriage. No, I wasn't laughing. I was coughing. *cough* ... see?

    4 3.54%
  • It will set a bad example for Christian youth

    0 0%
  • I don't honestly have a good reason, but I still say no

    1 0.88%
  • Other (please explain)

    15 13.27%
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Thread: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

  1. #1391
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So you all don't see a potential argument in forcing certain denominations to perform SSM if it were legal? Afterall, the arguments that it's discrimanation would still be the same, right? You all don't think there are people who wouldn't sue the Catholic church (for example) if it refused to perform SSM?
    Why am I quoted. I clearly and succinctly stated that there would be no force. Why are YOU forcing the point?

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Just like anything that I don't feel is a real issue, common sense prevails overtime and this poll at least partially reflects the view by the majority of Americans that gay people should be allowed to marry and be in the same **** spiral a straight couple is in.
    "We’re going to close the unproductive tax loopholes that allow some of the truly wealthy to avoid paying their fair share. In theory, some of those loopholes were understandable, but in practice they sometimes made it possible for millionaires to pay nothing, while a bus driver was paying ten percent of his salary, and that’s crazy." -Reagan

  3. #1393
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mertex View Post
    I know they are not asking churches to marry them, that is why I don't see a problem with allowing it, whether it is called a marriage or a civil union.

    Now if they were asking for churches to be forced to marry them, I would be against it, for the reasons I mentioned before.

    They are asking for the ability to be joined together as a "married couple" to be able to have access to the benefits that marriage provides couples. It's a matter of semantics - marriage, civil union, it is basically the same thing, except that marriage is the word used in the Bible, ergo, a religious rite, even if it is no different than a civil union performed other than in a church.
    there is currently no civil union = to legal marriage

    religious marriage is separate form legal marriage and therefore meaningless to the topic at hand.
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    So you all don't see a potential argument in forcing certain denominations to perform SSM if it were legal? Afterall, the arguments that it's discrimanation would still be the same, right? You all don't think there are people who wouldn't sue the Catholic church (for example) if it refused to perform SSM?

    one: the constitution doesnt allow it

    two: it could happen RIGHT NOW, someone DUMB enough could try, and fail horribly, because churches already turn down straight couples. Gay marriage wouldnt change the fact that churches already do and are allowed to discriminate LOL
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    The problem with your argument is it hasn't happened. Same sex marriage is legal in several states and nobody has sued the Catholic Church for not performing same sex marriages. Same sex marriage has been legalized in several countries and nobody has sued the Catholic Church in any of those countries for not performing same sex marriages. The 1st amendment would make it impossible if anyone even tried to sue on the basis of discrimination. It's a baseless argument.

    What would even be the purpose of making someone perform a religious ceremony?
    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    No church would be forced to perform a same sex ceremony. Hell, no church no is required by law to perform a wedding ceremony I don't think. If some one tried to sue the Catholic church for not performing a SSM ceremony, the suit would get thrown out.
    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    Why don't we see this happening now?

    I bet there are churches that refuse to wed people every single day due to the couple's religious beliefs, color, relative race, and tons of other reasons. In fact, churches discriminate everyday on a number of things, including race and sex. They are completely allowed to do so without any fear of lawsuits because of they have freedom of religion, which includes them not having to perform a ceremony that is against their religious beliefs.

    And I guarantee you that the court would laugh at anyone who brought a lawsuit against a church for denying them a marriage and dismiss the case. It would be unlikely to reach the SCOTUS because other courts would probably refuse to hear such cases before the SCOTUS got a chance.
    Ok, my initial question was not so much if such a challenge would actually win in court, I was more asking would you support forcing churches to perform SSM if it could be done?

    Why do I ask? Well, CT has made an argument regarding a homeless shelter that the shelter should not receive federal funding for refusing gays. Funding is, indeed, one way the federal government exerts control, so maybe I've asked the wrong question. Let me ask this one instead, do you all believe a church should lose its tax exempt status if it refused to perform SSM?
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Ok, my initial question was not so much if such a challenge would actually win in court, I was more asking would you support forcing churches to perform SSM if it could be done?

    Why do I ask? Well, CT has made an argument regarding a homeless shelter that the shelter should not receive federal funding for refusing gays. Funding is, indeed, one way the federal government exerts control, so maybe I've asked the wrong question. Let me ask this one instead, do you all believe a church should lose its tax exempt status if it refused to perform SSM?
    TO me those are very different issues, the church conducts a RELIGIOUS cermony/marriage and is allowed to also grant the legal version when it does so, so NO i would never want the church forced to do such.

    Now if a church wants to do a public service and act like a business I.E. shelter, orphanage etc I believe they should have to play the rules or NOT PLAY AT ALL whether they get federal/public funding or not. I believe that ONLY because shelters / orphanages aren't a religious matter in anyway.

    Just like the religious hospitals they cant discriminate they must follow the rules.
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    TO me those are very different issues, the church conducts a RELIGIOUS cermony/marriage and is allowed to also grant the legal version when it does so, so NO i would never want the church forced to do such.

    Now if a church wants to do a public service and act like a business I.E. shelter, orphanage etc I believe they should have to play the rules or NOT PLAY AT ALL whether they get federal/public funding or not. I believe that ONLY because shelters / orphanages aren't a religious matter in anyway.

    Just like the religious hospitals they cant discriminate they must follow the rules.
    This.

    I think there is a big difference between performing a ceremony (which I'm sure most couples wouldn't want their wedding performed by someone who would be forced to perform it and who didn't actually agree with their union) (doesn't sound like a happy wedding ceremony to me) and deciding who can adopt children (not really sure how I feel about discriminating against people at a homeless shelter, absolutely feel it despicable but not sure about how far I would side with those discriminated against).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    First of all, some gays are getting married now in their churches or under God.
    I suppose there will always be some churches (even Christian) churches that will allow it, some have allowed gays to become leaders, preachers, etc.

    What some believe God believes about homosexuality and/or same sex marriage is not necessarily what others believe God believes about homosexuality and/or same sex marriage.
    I have no problem with that statement, if everyone was of one accord there would be no controversy and no reason to be discussing it.

    I believe that God has zero problems with either homosexuality or same sex marriages.
    Like you said in your previous statement, what some believe God believes about homosexuality is not what others believe God believes about homosexuality. There are scriptures in the Bible (Old Testament) that some would interpret as God detesting homosexuality. (Leviticus 20:13). And the New Testament does not mention it at all except for a passage in Corinthians that claims that male prostitutes and sodomites (along with some others) will not inherit the kingdom of God, and some perceive that to mean homosexuality. So, to make a statement that God has zero problems with either homosexuality/same sex marriage, is like speaking for God without his word to back it up.

    I also don't believe God cares at all about a lot of things that could easily be viewed as trivial issues pertaining to sex from a higher power that probably has a lot bigger concerns.
    Again, you are claiming what you believe, when you have already stated that not everyone believes the same way. The fact that you believe it does not make it so.
    That is why I think churches have the right to decide whether they will marry gays or not, and it cannot be forced upon them, while at the same time, gays should be allowed to have the same benefits that a marriage provides whether you want to call it a marriage or civil union, partnership or whatever.

    Second, I'm not sure how many people get married by the JotP, but I bet it is small, especially since there are so many other alternatives, some of which do not have to involve religion at all but still may involve some sort of ceremony. My husband and I would be included in there, since we were wed by a woman who got ordained over the internet to make extra money and didn't care what religion we were or what kind of ceremony we wanted. We made sure to leave out all mention of any higher power, despite both of us believing in one, because neither of us feel that God really cares that much about our ceremony.
    Again you are stressing what you believe (did you forget the statement that you made at the beginning, that what some people believe does not necessarily mean others believe also?) as if that is what it should be. I happen to believe that God does care about every aspect of our lives, but I don't expect others to believe what I believe. Getting married in the church for me meant that I was seeking God's blessing on my marriage, that I took my vows seriously and would honor God's take on marriage.

    The creation of marriage is recorded in Genesis 2:23-24: "The man said, ‘This is now bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called “woman,” for she was taken out of man.’ For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh." God created man and then made woman to complement him. Marriage is God’s “fix” for the fact that “it is not good for the man to be alone” (Genesis 2:18).

    The word “helper” used to describe Eve in Genesis 2:20 means “to surround, to protect or aid, help.” Eve was created to be alongside Adam as his "other half," to be his aid and his helper. A man and woman, when married, become "one flesh." This oneness is manifested most fully in the physical union of sexual intimacy. The New Testament adds a warning regarding this oneness. "So they are no longer two, but one. Therefore what God has joined together, let man not separate" (Matthew 19:6).

    What does the Bible say about marriage?

    The fact is that the state uses the word marriage for a civil contract that describes certain relationships and what they mean in law. No matter how much some religions or religious people want to own the word marriage, they don't.
    The word "marriage" is only a word, and if they want to call the civil contracts, unions, partnerships or whatever a marriage, doesn't matter to me. However, for those churches and people that belong to those churches that interpret the Bible to mean that God does not look upon homosexuality as okay, I believe they have the right to deny to marry gays. The state, however, cannot use the Bible as their reference for denying it, ergo, they should have to allow it.


    And that is how it should be. We have lots of words in the English language that mean more than one thing or that are used differently depending on the group using the word. It would be a complete waste of money to change all marriages to civil unions just to avoid offending some religions, who do not actually own the particular word to begin with.
    I have no problem with it, why I said I have no problem with gays being married as long as they don't expect it to be acceptable by everyone especially by churches and people that attend those churches that oppose it. The fact that it is mentioned in the Bible that God created a woman for Adam, signifies that God approves of marriage and it was between a man and a woman, why the word "marriage" may be considered a religious rite, as opposed to just having a contract that grants you certain civil rights.



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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Centrist77 View Post
    there is currently no civil union = to legal marriage
    In certain states, a civil union provides the same benefits as a legal marriage.

    “Civil union” is a category of law that was created to extend rights to same-sex couples. These rights are recognized only in the state where the couple resides.

    Read more: A Primer on Same-Sex Marriage, Civil Unions, Domestic Partnerships, and Defense of Marriage Acts — Infoplease.com A Primer on Same-Sex Marriage, Civil Unions, Domestic Partnerships, and Defense of Marriage Acts — Infoplease.com


    religious marriage is separate form legal marriage and therefore meaningless to the topic at hand.
    People getting married in a church are officially considered married by the state, so I don't understand your statement.



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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Let me ask this one instead, do you all believe a church should lose its tax exempt status if it refused to perform SSM?
    They are a private organization. They can do as they want.

    I'm with Rand Paul on the discrimination laws thing. I don't think any private organization should be told it can't discriminate as long as it isn't receiving funds from the state.

    Now if a church were to fund raise for a particular candidate or proposition that was against same sex marriage, then I would likely want to see their tax exempt status revoked.
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