View Poll Results: Same-sex marriage is wrong because

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • It isn't, and should be available to all gay couples

    77 68.14%
  • Being gay is wrong, so they can't get married

    16 14.16%
  • The sanctity of marriage. No, I wasn't laughing. I was coughing. *cough* ... see?

    4 3.54%
  • It will set a bad example for Christian youth

    0 0%
  • I don't honestly have a good reason, but I still say no

    1 0.88%
  • Other (please explain)

    15 13.27%
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Thread: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

  1. #1281
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ikari View Post
    How convenient for you. The right to contract is being infringed upon by the government. But you don't see the coercion. Free of these laws, homosexuals would be able to be married. But you don't see the coercion. You, you and everyone else arguing against same sex marriage is arguing for government force against the rights and liberties of homosexuals. At least be man enough to admit what you're doing.

    It's willful blindness and nothing else. But in free society we seek minimization of coercion. Seeing as the individual has right to contract. That the Marriage License is a contract issued and recognized by the government. The People have the right to engage in it at their leisure. It thus takes force to prevent that, and that force is being applied right now to keep same sex couples from obtaining the contract. That's what this all comes down to. You can cry about "trampling beliefs", but none of that is happening. I'm pretty sure we aren't calling for mandated gay marriage and everyone has to gay marry. Your beliefs get to remain intact. You are still free to marry as you like. By removing this coercion against the free exercise of rights, you do not incur a greater coercion. As such, there is no logical argument one can make under the current circumstances to justly argue against same sex marriage.
    The "right to contract" is regulated in a number of ways. That's not convienient, thats truth, whether or not it has anything to do with SSM.
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  2. #1282
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    The "right to contract" is regulated in a number of ways. That's not convienient, thats truth, whether or not it has anything to do with SSM.

    And the state has to demonstrate why a particular regulation is in place. What is the state's interest that is being addressed by the regulation and is it reasonable to assume that the state interest is being addressed with that regulation? Also, the state needs to show that the state interest is enough to justify the discrimination.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    using that logic, only about 3% of the population is gay and not all of them want to get married, so there are really very few people that gay marriage personally affects. so why the big debate over an issue that affects only a small, small # of people?
    The number of homosexuals reported in polls has long been considered questionable based on the social stigma of publicly admitting one is gay. And on top of that, there have been multiple studies done finding anywhere between 3% total to 5 to 8% in each gender. Beyond that however, the fact that this is a national hot button issue that comes up during federal campaigns, has resulted in votes in numerous states, and is routinely polled gives the distinct impression that while a small amount of the population is gay the notion of same sex marriage affects a large amount of people in this country.

    Since there is not a large call or public outcry...and no where close to a 50/50 split on the issue...regarding incest and the number of people that engage in it is at the very least on par with the number of homosexuals and potentially significantly smaller. On top of that, the vast majority of participants are participating in it in an illegal way beyond simply the illegality of incest, as its individuals participating in it with minors which is an entirely different issue.

    If Incest became such a significant issue that there was a legitimate national presence towards a discussion regarding the constitutionality of it, I would be more apt to take up the banner for debating it. As it stands however, there is very little national mindshare regarding it, there is very little evidence of any kind of substantial number of individuals choosing at a legal age to get involved in such, and there's no national discussion going on about it. As such, when it comes up I'll share my views, but it is not an issue that is of great importance in the country at this time. The same can not be said for same sex marriage.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    but that was not the arguement.
    It was if you read the whole of my posts rather than taking one sentence and expecting it to stand alone sans context

  5. #1285
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    but equal rights is. you can't argue gay marriage in a vacuum.
    but you can't go down the slippery slope either. Each stands on its own. The criteria should be just cause.

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  6. #1286
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The number of homosexuals reported in polls has long been considered questionable based on the social stigma of publicly admitting one is gay. And on top of that, there have been multiple studies done finding anywhere between 3% total to 5 to 8% in each gender. Beyond that however, the fact that this is a national hot button issue that comes up during federal campaigns, has resulted in votes in numerous states, and is routinely polled gives the distinct impression that while a small amount of the population is gay the notion of same sex marriage affects a large amount of people in this country.

    Since there is not a large call or public outcry...and no where close to a 50/50 split on the issue...regarding incest and the number of people that engage in it is at the very least on par with the number of homosexuals and potentially significantly smaller. On top of that, the vast majority of participants are participating in it in an illegal way beyond simply the illegality of incest, as its individuals participating in it with minors which is an entirely different issue.

    If Incest became such a significant issue that there was a legitimate national presence towards a discussion regarding the constitutionality of it, I would be more apt to take up the banner for debating it. As it stands however, there is very little national mindshare regarding it, there is very little evidence of any kind of substantial number of individuals choosing at a legal age to get involved in such, and there's no national discussion going on about it. As such, when it comes up I'll share my views, but it is not an issue that is of great importance in the country at this time. The same can not be said for same sex marriage.
    IOW...equal rights are only equal rights if a sufficiently large # of people are affected. got it
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  7. #1287
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    IOW...equal rights are only equal rights if a sufficiently large # of people are affected. got it
    What is your scthick with equal rights?

    When we talk about equal rights, we are talking about the Equal Protection Clause of the Constitution.

    All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
    That means we are talking about due process of law.

    Which means the levels of scrutiny and protected classes.

    Now I'm sure you meet lots of uneducated, dimwits who argue a vague notion of equality that would make Karl Marx and Alfred Kinsey proud, but that is generally not what people are talking about when they are talking about equal rights on this forum. Equal rights is a Constitutional argument. Not a cultural argument that all things in our culture must be equal.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    but the main arguement for SSM is EQUAL RIGHTS for gays. I'm just saying it is hypocritical to bleat for equal rights for gays and then argue against equal rights for another group.
    You as a conservative are in favor of spending cuts.

    Are you in favor of ALL spending cuts regardless of what they're too, why they're happening, how they occur, etc? If you're not in favor of ALL budget cuts are you hypocritical?

    Unless you're suggesting Incest is EXACTLY the same as SSM in all ways, then blatantly saying its hypocritical to support one and be against another is purely and utterly incorrect or at the very least ignorant if you don't have further info to go off of.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by OscarB63 View Post
    IOW...equal rights are only equal rights if a sufficiently large # of people are affected. got it
    No, time, energy, and the ability to speak are finite entities. Due to this fact priorites in life must be made as to what is the most important to focus on at any given time.

    If time didn't exist, if energy was never exhuasting, and if peoples patience for political battles never wained then we could take up every cause with equal passion and purpose.

    Since that's about as likely to occur as having unicorns fly out of your ass the next time you take a ****, I deal in reality.

    Reality in life is that in ALL things we as people do, we set priorites based on importance. It'd be a good and nice thing to do to call great aunt betsy on her birthday and say hello and give her birthday wishes. However, on the scale of importance it may be behind work, taking little timmy to basketball practice, cooking dinner, and paying the mortgage, and unwinding to your favorite television show and at the very end if you have time you'll call aunt betsy. That doesn't mean that calling great aunt betsy isn't a good and decent thing that, given infinite time and energy, you'd do. Its acknowledging that there are things that ALSO are good things that are more important, and you have to priorities that are more important.

    Are you seriously suggesting that you NEVER forgo doing something because there's a more pressing matter at hand?

    There are larger issues that affect more people and are more plausable to reach a conclussion in the near future then the issue of incest. That doesn't mean that the issue isn't legitimate, or worth while, what it does mean is that there's not enough time in a day, political capital in the world, or energy in me to debate EVERY SINGLE ISSUE AT ALL TIMES 24/7 A DAY on an internet message board.

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    No? There's no pressure on the Catholic church to accept gay priests?
    Is it being "Forced" by the government, or is it being pressure from private entities?

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