View Poll Results: Same-sex marriage is wrong because

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • It isn't, and should be available to all gay couples

    77 68.14%
  • Being gay is wrong, so they can't get married

    16 14.16%
  • The sanctity of marriage. No, I wasn't laughing. I was coughing. *cough* ... see?

    4 3.54%
  • It will set a bad example for Christian youth

    0 0%
  • I don't honestly have a good reason, but I still say no

    1 0.88%
  • Other (please explain)

    15 13.27%
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Thread: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

  1. #1121
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Not according to Loving.

    The reasons given for supporting IRM failed, not the concept of equal protection.
    They failed to reach the necessary level to justify the discrimination under equal protection.

  2. #1122
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    You missed my point, Zyphlin. There is no law out there that precludes gay people from getting married.
    To that I absolutely agree.

    There is however a law out there that precludes a woman from getting married to a woman or a man from getting married to a man.

  3. #1123
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    Just because the discrimination is not the same, doesn't mean that laws against polygamy aren't also discriminatory. Please, people compare types of discrimination all the time, even if they're not exactly the same.
    Actually, whether or not the discrimination is the same is irrelevant. And I've stated in this thread it is discrimination not allowing polygamy.

    What matters is the levels of scrutiny required to allow the government to discriminate, and what level polygamy would fall under. It would fall under the lowest teir, which is lower than where Gender falls.

    You can compare the discrimination against polygamists to the discrimination in regards to same sex marriage. What you can't do is suggest that the level of scrutiny on the part of the government is comparable in both.

    Because one requires stricter scrutiny than the other, the same argument and same level of discrimination between both of them could result in one being constitutional and the other not being constitutional.

  4. #1124
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    mac, missed the part about the sex on the beach, which is why it wasn't addressed. I am actually okay with people having sex on the beach as well. Doesn't really hurt me at all. Granted, I can at least see why some people might not want to allow their children to see such acts, since we have some available research to suggest that children are affected negatively by viewing some adult acts. This is most likely one of the biggest reasons that it is illegal most places. If someone wishes to challenge those laws, I say "go for it".
    I don't want to see such acts. I also don't want to have to see naked fat men eating in a restaurant. Good grief, are you suggesting that simple decency laws will be next on the chopping block if SSM is made legal because the "harm" or lack of it is the same (as is the arguments in favor of such laws in many cases)?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
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  5. #1125
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    Meh, so is 'family relation', and siblings are born that way also. Incest ftw?
    Family relations is a protected classes higher than the lowest level of scrutiny? Is that what you're saying?

  6. #1126
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I don't want to see such acts. I also don't want to have to see naked fat men eating in a restaurant. Good grief, are you suggesting that simple decency laws will be next on the chopping block if SSM is made legal because the "harm" or lack of it is the same (as is the arguments in favor of such laws in many cases)?
    Actually Mac seems to be the one suggesting that as he's the one constantly trying to bring up everything but same sex marriage in hopes of somehow finding something that sticks.

  7. #1127
    Dungeon Master
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually, whether or not the discrimination is the same is irrelevant. And I've stated in this thread it is discrimination not allowing polygamy.

    What matters is the levels of scrutiny required to allow the government to discriminate, and what level polygamy would fall under. It would fall under the lowest teir, which is lower than where Gender falls.

    You can compare the discrimination against polygamists to the discrimination in regards to same sex marriage. What you can't do is suggest that the level of scrutiny on the part of the government is comparable in both.

    Because one requires stricter scrutiny than the other, the same argument and same level of discrimination between both of them could result in one being constitutional and the other not being constitutional.
    Why wouldn't it fall under the same scrutiny, especially if one believes in polygamy for religious reasons?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


  8. #1128
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    That's fine, be as proud as you wanna be. Just people don't tend to hold "pride" events in things they don't take pride in, in this case, being gay. BTW knowing your views on national pride, do you view gay pride the same way.
    I don't view it the same way, but it's stupid too IMO.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  9. #1129
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by X Factor View Post
    I don't want to see such acts. I also don't want to have to see naked fat men eating in a restaurant. Good grief, are you suggesting that simple decency laws will be next on the chopping block if SSM is made legal because the "harm" or lack of it is the same (as is the arguments in favor of such laws in many cases)?
    Only if someone plans on fighting certain decency laws and can show that they are being harmed in some way by them and that their harm is more important than whatever harm(s) the state is claiming is in their interest to protect against.

    It is unlikely that decency laws will go away any time soon, and I am pretty sure that they have been challenged and held up in a number of court cases due to their level of scrutiny, how little harm is being caused to someone by preventing them from having sex and/or being naked in certain places and the level of possible harm (supported by some evidence hopefully) that the laws are in place to prevent.

    I have given at least one possible harm that could be claimed and probably has some psychologically supported evidence to back it that could come, at least to children, for these laws, as long as they apply equally to everyone. Still no one has been able to give me any sort of idea what harm could come from allowing same sex marriage, let alone why that harm should outweigh the harm of not allowing same sex couples access to marriage, most especially at the level of scrutiny that this type of discrimination would be at.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  10. #1130
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Actually Mac seems to be the one suggesting that as he's the one constantly trying to bring up everything but same sex marriage in hopes of somehow finding something that sticks.
    I think Mac is worried, as I am, about the domino effect. I've seen a couple arguments here that suggest that to be for gay marriage, you have to chuck any meaning marriage has beyond just a contractual one. I also don't want to have to support public nudity or public sex. Does supporting SSM mean that morality no longer has a place in the law, at all?
    The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.
    Mahatma Gandhi


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