View Poll Results: Same-sex marriage is wrong because

Voters
113. You may not vote on this poll
  • It isn't, and should be available to all gay couples

    77 68.14%
  • Being gay is wrong, so they can't get married

    16 14.16%
  • The sanctity of marriage. No, I wasn't laughing. I was coughing. *cough* ... see?

    4 3.54%
  • It will set a bad example for Christian youth

    0 0%
  • I don't honestly have a good reason, but I still say no

    1 0.88%
  • Other (please explain)

    15 13.27%
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Thread: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

  1. #1071
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    And none of your arguments make sense (IE, discrimination isn't happening despite you agreeing that a group of people is being denied something based on their classification as a certain group of people which is text book discrimination....or suggesting that something our form of government specifically rarely allows for is somehow an "important government interest") and are completely illogical and nonsensical, but they're at least rooted in whatever cooky way you apparently view definitions and the constitution.
    I don't think it anymore discrimination than denying people under a certain age the right to drive, or denying people of a certain gender access to certain facilities...but meh, to each their own.

    But I understand you think its perfectly constitutional, and since its constitutional its okay to oppose it on religious grounds.[/QUOTE]
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  2. #1072
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No, since your argument was assuming unquestionably that the law is unquestionably unconstitutional, and thus anyone supporting it for any reasons other than what you deem okay is a "wolf". You were criticizing them not for their HAVING the disagreement for non-constitutional reasons. I have no problem with someone suggesting they're opposed to Same Sex Marriage because of religion, nor do I think they're a wolf if they do it. However, I would have a prolbem only if they told me it could violate the constitution BECAUSE of their religious reasons.

    If they simply think that its NOT unconstitutional, and at that point oppose it due to their religion. SO be it. I'll debate them, but I don't think they're wolves. However, in that case I'd want to know at least why they think its unconstitutional.

    I disagree greatly with Mac on this. I think he's absolutely wrong regarding the EPC, and I think his arguments make absolutely no sense. However, I don't think he's a "wolf" or some horrible person or being entirely irrational, because his religious views aren't being used to justify violating the constitution because his constitutional views say there is no violation.

    I fully understand my views on the EPC are my OPINION at this point. I don't go into the conversation assuming they're absolutely correct, like you appear to do in your post you reference. However, if someone disagrees with my opinion I like to know their reasons why and will debate them on it.
    I guess we do differ. I think anyone who wants to impose their views without a Constitutional justification is a wolf. I would be glad to debate anyone who disagrees with me on the Constitutionality, but outside of that, it is just people trying to impose their desires on the minority with no regard for their Constitutional rights. Am I really that wrong? Look at mac. Do you really think he gives a crap about my Constitutional right to due process? No, he would be happy to slap a same sex marriage ban on me in a second based on nothing but his religious beliefs. That is a perfect example of the wolves ganging up on the lamb, particularly since if the independent judiciary steps in to protect my Constitutional rights, he bitches that it goes again the will of the wolves.

  3. #1073
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I imagine no more harm than seeing someone walking down the street naked, or having sex on the beach.....I guess it's all perception...
    I agree with you that the walking down the street nude likely doesn't have a largely harming affect on kids. I think sex might, in the same way studies show that early exposure to pornography can have negative effects on children. However, in both those cases, I don't think there's a constitutional right that's being violated by denying people the ability to that. I don't think people have the right to have sex on public property, so there's no constitutional violation there. I think one COULD argue walking around naked is a form of free speech, but then again I also think there is far larger public will against public nudity then same sex marriage, I think the affects of suck laws affect far less people than the denial of same sex marriage, and I think the direct affect on other individuals is greater since it would be a visible thing to all individuals in public with that person where as there's no giant sign sitting over two people that says "THESE PEOPLE ARE MARRIED". So while I wouldn't oppose over turning said laws, I see it fall more in line with a "blue law" where I don't think its affect on society is so great that its a major issue that needs to be dealt with at the moment.

  4. #1074
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I don't think it anymore discrimination than denying people under a certain age the right to drive,
    Because it isn't any less discriminatory.

    However, constitutionally...discrimination against gender needs a more serious reason and more serious evidence of its necessity than against age.

    You're right, they're both ABSOLUTELY discriminatory.

    However, they're not given the same amount of constitutional protection.

    I thought you said you understood the EPC?

    or denying people of a certain gender access to certain facilities...but meh, to each their own.
    That is another form of discrimination. Bathrooms in public places are "separate but equal" and in some cases not even equal. However, I think a far easier argument for their importance and why the separation is necessary can be made for that then for marriage laws. Though if you want to make an argument against them, be my guest mac. You seem to laboring under this misconception that if it exists elsewhere in government then that invalidates it anywhere. Or that if I'm not arguing it as strongly in all cases then my argument is invalid. This is, of course, ridiculous, illogical, and a fallacy.

    If you'd like to make an argument that opposite sex bathrooms are unconstitutional, be my guess. Considering that's not my argument, nor care here...its irrelevant as to whether or not you think its unconstitutional and doesn't change the fact that gender discrimination is unconstitutional and middle tier.

    But I understand you think its perfectly constitutional, and since its constitutional its okay to oppose it on religious grounds.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    I guess we do differ. I think anyone who wants to impose their views without a Constitutional justification is a wolf. I would be glad to debate anyone who disagrees with me on the Constitutionality, but outside of that, it is just people trying to impose their desires on the minority with no regard for their Constitutional rights. Am I really that wrong? Look at mac. Do you really think he gives a crap about my Constitutional right to due process? No, he would be happy to slap a same sex marriage ban on me in a second based on nothing but his religious beliefs. That is a perfect example of the wolves ganging up on the lamb, particularly since if the independent judiciary steps in to protect my Constitutional rights, he bitches that it goes again the will of the wolves.
    Then you see our difference. I'm glad I could clarify the difference between your very narrow minded view and what I was stating.

  6. #1076
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I imagine no more harm than seeing someone walking down the street naked, or having sex on the beach.....I guess it's all perception...
    I asked for examples of any harm caused to a person by allowing them to marry someone of the same sex. You haven't given me anything but supposition and apparently an assumption that I believe that walking down the street naked causes harm and/or should be banned.

    For the record, I don't believe this, I happen to be very much against laws that ban walking around naked because I was raised by a mother who taught us to see the human body as just a body and not something sexual, it's just that such laws are not actually causing harm to a lot of people at the moment. Same sex marriage is much more important to me but believe me, if someone is arrested and especially put on a sex offenders' list for just being naked in public, I do get mad and speak out against it.

    Just answer the questions with some sort of examples of the harm that might be caused so that those can be legitimately compared to the harm done in preventing same sex couples from getting a legal marriage.
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  7. #1077
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    I imagine no more harm than seeing someone walking down the street naked, or having sex on the beach.....I guess it's all perception...
    me neither they should let people express their love in public! don't like it, avert they eyes
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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  8. #1078
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Then you see our difference. I'm glad I could clarify the difference between your very narrow minded view and what I was stating.
    The only difference is you think mac and people like him in some convoluted way actually care about the Constitution and I think he would use it to wipe his ass if it would allow him to impose his religious views on others. Nothing he has said or done in this thread has lead me to believe otherwise.

  9. #1079
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    Because it isn't any less discriminatory.

    However, constitutionally...discrimination against gender needs a more serious reason and more serious evidence of its necessity than against age.

    You're right, they're both ABSOLUTELY discriminatory.

    However, they're not given the same amount of constitutional protection.

    I thought you said you understood the EPC?
    That's why I said it isn't any more discriminatory than.....

    That is another form of discrimination. Bathrooms in public places are "separate but equal" and in some cases not even equal. However, I think a far easier argument for their importance and why the separation is necessary can be made for that then for marriage laws. Though if you want to make an argument against them, be my guest mac. You seem to laboring under this misconception that if it exists elsewhere in government then that invalidates it anywhere. Or that if I'm not arguing it as strongly in all cases then my argument is invalid. This is, of course, ridiculous, illogical, and a fallacy.
    No...it's just another example to me. No more, no less discriminatory, neither unconstitutionally so.

    If you'd like to make an argument that opposite sex bathrooms are unconstitutional, be my guess. Considering that's not my argument, nor care here...its irrelevant as to whether or not you think its unconstitutional and doesn't change the fact that gender discrimination is unconstitutional and middle tier.
    That's the opposite of what I said and why I said it.

    But I understand you think its perfectly constitutional, and since its constitutional its okay to oppose it on religious grounds.
    Are you going to keep saying this until I say or do something?
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    Re: SSM (Same-sex marriage) is wrong because?

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    But any other group can marry someone of the opposite gender. I could marry an illegal immigrant so she can become legal.
    Actually I thought the federal government called that a fraudulent marriage. While I think this can be done, it wouldn't change her status automatically. I think there are requirements you have to meet to prove that the marriage is not just for that reason.
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