View Poll Results: Are Entitlement Neccessary?

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    20 50.00%
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    14 35.00%
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Thread: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

  1. #41
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    If you require follow up you go back to the ER...just like hundreds of thousands of people do every year. It IS that simple. Additionally, every county that I know of has a contract medicare/medficaid service provider and an unfinded clinic. You miught be amazed what is already out there for you. There us a website maintained by the United Way (and Im pretty sure it covers every state)...go to 2-1-1 Call Center Search and see if there arent services in your local area.
    And what does treating the medical system this way actually do? Skyrockets the cost of care, because the hospitals wind up eating a lot of the bills when they have no choice. So everyone else's cost of care skyrockets too, even when they're trying to pay for it fair and square.

    It's unsustainable, economically damaging, and unfair.

    There are resources... in some places. In others, there used to be but they've been cut lately. It's just luck of the draw depending on where you live.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-28-11 at 11:05 PM.

  2. #42
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    And what does treating the medical system this way actually do? Skyrockets the cost of care, because the hospitals wind up eating a lot of the bills when they have no choice. So everyone else's cost of care skyrockets too, even when they're trying to pay for it fair and square.

    It's unsustainable, economically damaging, and unfair.

    There are resources... in some places. In others, there used to be but they've been cut lately. It's just luck of the draw depending on where you live.
    Unfair...Good GOD how I despise that word...

    SO...and Im not trying to be argumentative here...but let me get this straight...you dont like that there ISNT affordable healthcare...then when I demonstrate that there is you dont like THAT either? BTW...I downloaded the 211 resource pages for Minnesota. Amazing number of freesources there...

    We do not live in a socialist system. The socialism people crave is only made POSSIBLE by hard working productive CAPITALISTS. That being said...we still make available resources for those that cant (and FAR too often WILL NOT) provide for themselves. Its abused like you wouldnt believe...and you think it will be MORE cost effective if they create a federal universal version of it?

  3. #43
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Unfair...Good GOD how I despise that word...

    SO...and Im not trying to be argumentative here...but let me get this straight...you dont like that there ISNT affordable healthcare...then when I demonstrate that there is you dont like THAT either? BTW...I downloaded the 211 resource pages for Minnesota. Amazing number of freesources there...

    We do not live in a socialist system. The socialism people crave is only made POSSIBLE by hard working productive CAPITALISTS. That being said...we still make available resources for those that cant (and FAR too often WILL NOT) provide for themselves. Its abused like you wouldnt believe...and you think it will be MORE cost effective if they create a federal universal version of it?
    The thing is, it's not affordable. It is grossly and unsustainably expensive for society. You should like what I'm saying - I'm saying it's unfair to the people who are actually paying for their insurance.

    Yes, I said earlier Minnesota has particularly good resources. But some states don't have very many resources at all, let alone comprehensive ones.

    Whether or not you get help shouldn't depend on the luck of the draw of where you live.

    We are quite socialist, and we have been for ages. Public education, welfare, limited public health, government paid police, fire brigades, and postal services, government paid infrastructure, etc etc etc.

    Please. We don't live in a pure capitalist country and we never have. Because doing so has never been a recipe for a balanced country.

    And yes, I do think it will be more balanced if we have a well-planned public health care system. Why? Because every country that does spends proportionally WAY less on healthcare than we do.

    We have the worst care in the developed world, and the most expensive care simultaneously. This broken system is the reason why.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-28-11 at 11:24 PM.

  4. #44
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by empireofreason View Post
    So if perfectly mentally and physically healthy person has the willpower to work, but the energy resources have been hoarded a greedily manner, is this too a fault of nature?
    "Energy" resources?
    I don't follow.

    But yes a person of sound mind and body should work for their own needs.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    ...And then plunge me into a few thousand dollars of debt for having the audacity to get sick? Lovely.
    I don't see how requiring a person to pay for luxuries is a ok, but to pay for something more important to them is wrong.

    We have things incredibly backwards.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #46
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Of course entitlements are necessary that's just common sense, the problem is their abuse and endless/open door policies.
    PURE STUPIDITY 1.) Glenn Beck doesnt lie. 2.) Obama is Jesus like 3.) Sara Palin is so smart & shes a great speaker. 4.) Obama does just about everything perfect. 5.) Fox doesn' t lean right 6.) Pro-Choice is no different than Pro-Slavery 7.) MSNBC doesn't lean left. 8.) What TSA does is no different than sexual assault & child porn.

  7. #47
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    The thing is, it's not affordable. It is grossly and unsustainably expensive for society. You should like what I'm saying - I'm saying it's unfair to the people who are actually paying for their insurance.

    Yes, I said earlier Minnesota has particularly good resources. But some states don't have very many resources at all, let alone comprehensive ones.

    Whether or not you get help shouldn't depend on the luck of the draw of where you live.

    We are quite socialist, and we have been for ages. Public education, welfare, limited public health, government paid police, fire brigades, and postal services, government paid infrastructure, etc etc etc.

    Please. We don't live in a pure capitalist country and we never have. Because doing so has never been a recipe for a balanced country.

    And yes, I do think it will be more balanced if we have a well-planned public health care system. Why? Because every country that does spends proportionally WAY less on healthcare than we do.

    We have the worst care in the developed world, and the most expensive care simultaneously. This broken system is the reason why.
    We engage in socialist policies out of political expediency and for my money it has caused far more damage than good. 'The system' doesnt need more government (taxpayer) dollars it needs less freeloaders...less people unwilloing to provide for themselves. And we have created a system that enables them to be dependent. The socialism that was created is meant to be in place for those that NEED the help. Unfortunately we have so many leeches and drains on the system that we dont have enough to provide for the ones that truly need it.

    Our medical system is fine...beyond fine. There is a reason why people travel from around the world to get treated here. Is it expensive? Yep. Can it be modified? You bet. But more government healthcare will not mean better services and it damn sure wont mean more affordable services.

  8. #48
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I don't see how requiring a person to pay for luxuries is a ok, but to pay for something more important to them is wrong.

    We have things incredibly backwards.
    Living a luxury? Do I have the right to shoot you in the face, then?

  9. #49
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    We engage in socialist policies out of political expediency and for my money it has caused far more damage than good. 'The system' doesnt need more government (taxpayer) dollars it needs less freeloaders...less people unwilloing to provide for themselves. And we have created a system that enables them to be dependent. The socialism that was created is meant to be in place for those that NEED the help. Unfortunately we have so many leeches and drains on the system that we dont have enough to provide for the ones that truly need it.

    Our medical system is fine...beyond fine. There is a reason why people travel from around the world to get treated here. Is it expensive? Yep. Can it be modified? You bet. But more government healthcare will not mean better services and it damn sure wont mean more affordable services.
    History proves you wrong. Pure capitalism never works. You wind up with a giant poor caste and not much else. Monopolies can and do take over - the market doesn't control them. Societies with a socialist aspect just do better. Better education, longer lives, higher standard of living, more competitive, lower crime, etc. And there's a sweet spot of socialist qualities that seem to work best. We're shy of it. Some countries overdo it.

    We have the worst care, most people dying of lack of access to care, and the most expensive care in the developed world and you think it's fine? We also have the shortest life expectancy,

    Yeah, RICH people fly in. Rich people are all you care about, aren't they? Yes, enough money will buy you some medical attention. But if you don't have money, you get the bottom of the barrel.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-29-11 at 12:30 AM.

  10. #50
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Living a luxury? Do I have the right to shoot you in the face, then?
    Of course not, but when people misplace luxuries for needs, that is assumed to be right.
    When someone has to pay for one of the most important things to them, it's wrong?

    How much is your life worth to you? and how much are you willing to pay for it?
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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