View Poll Results: Are Entitlement Neccessary?

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Thread: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

  1. #11
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    Harry Guerrilla's Avatar
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    That's odd. Seems like every country on earth with a higher standard of living, lower crime, better education, and more competitive society than ours disagrees with you.
    Well it's really not far to compare those nations with us.
    The U.S. is more of an aggregate of nations than a nation unto itself.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    There is a popular but mostly untrue myth that everyone needs comprehensive medical care, as a basic need.
    That is blatantly false.
    The biggest gains in medical care have come from vaccines, that have prevented the most deadly diseases.
    Not true. I'm 22, and my life has been saved by medical technology twice. I am not sickly - I'm a pretty healthy young person. My mother's life has been saved by medical care countless times due to her asthma. My dad is the healthiest 60-year-old I know, but even he has at least 4 or 5 cases where medical technology saved his life.

    You are aware that a simple UTI left untreated is deadly, right? Did you know that over 80% of women get a UTI at some point in their lives?

    A doctor's visit and urine analysis is required to get a UTI treated. Plenty of people can't afford that without insurance, especially not right now, and a UTI can spread and become life-threatening within a week.

    The fact that most people, probably including you, have access to medical care has blinded them to the reality that without it, making it to 50 is pretty rare. Hell, making it out of childhood is pretty rare.
    Last edited by SmokeAndMirrors; 05-28-11 at 07:57 PM.

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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Well it's really not far to compare those nations with us.
    The U.S. is more of an aggregate of nations than a nation unto itself.
    Yup. And notice how the states with the fewest entitlement resources have the worst economies and the highest crime. I pay more federal tax dollars than I get back, because those taxes are going south of the Mason-Dixon to hold up the struggling states. This is true of pretty much all blue states, which tend to have more entitlements.

    Happy to do it, though. Maybe they'll figure it out eventually if we hold them up long enough.

  4. #14
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Housing, basic comfortable housing is affordable...Food, definitely affordable...
    There is a popular but mostly untrue myth that everyone needs comprehensive medical care, as a basic need.
    I would agree that things are affordable. But, what do with the lazy or fraudulent from taking advantage? Prevent or deter? Encourage work or threaten with prison? Or do nothing?

  5. #15
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Not true. I'm 22, and my life has been saved by medical technology twice. I am not sickly - I'm a pretty healthy young person. My mother's life has been saved by medical care countless times due to her asthma. My dad is the healthiest 60-year-old I know, but even he has at least 4 or 5 cases where medical technology saved his life.

    You are aware that a simple UTI left untreated is deadly, right? Did you know that over 80% of women get a UTI at some point in their lives?

    A doctor's visit and urine analysis is required to get a UTI treated. Plenty of people can't afford that without insurance, especially not right now, and a UTI can spread and become life-threatening within a week.

    The fact that most people, probably including you, have access to medical care has blinded them to the reality that without it, making it to 50 is pretty rare. Hell, making it out of childhood is pretty rare.
    I forgot to include antibiotics.

    But largely the majority of low life expectancy, before our time resulted from childhood death from, malnutrition, dirty water and exposure to what is now vaccine cure based diseases.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  6. #16
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    Yup. And notice how the states with the fewest entitlement resources have the worst economies and the highest crime. I pay more federal tax dollars than I get back, because those taxes are going south of the Mason-Dixon to hold up the struggling states. This is true of pretty much all blue states, which tend to have more entitlements.

    Happy to do it, though. Maybe they'll figure it out eventually if we hold them up long enough.
    Again though, breaking down state by state can be fallacious.
    If you go even further, and do by county, you may find that places with higher population density tend to be the biggest areas of welfare use.

    Someone posted this a long while back, if I remember correctly.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

  7. #17
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by empireofreason View Post
    I would agree that things are affordable. But, what do with the lazy or fraudulent from taking advantage? Prevent or deter? Encourage work or threaten with prison? Or do nothing?
    If someone has no reasonable excuse to prevent them from securing those things for themselves (aka, disability, birth defect or something similar) deny them outright.

    Welfare should be done based on faults of nature, not faults of willpower.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
    —Adam Shepard

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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    Take a "first world" nation--take what belongs from those who have earned what they have on the basis that "everyone" has a "right" to shelter, food and medicine and PRESTO!...you will have a second world nation.
    But my premise is not to take. It to offer a trade with fellow citizens, not some stranger across the planet. Work in exchange.

    There is an alternative to an exchange, one we are already doing: Giving it or not giving it: which has two results, Democrat handing it over to the needy (Relatively peaceful, except for the rich who feels it unfair), or a criminal knocking you brains out at the bank machine to get it, then paying for a prison sentence.

  9. #19
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    I forgot to include antibiotics.

    But largely the majority of low life expectancy, before our time resulted from childhood death from, malnutrition, dirty water and exposure to what is now vaccine cure based diseases.
    It's not that simple. What I would have died from was a large cyst that required surgery. Pretty minor surgery, and actually not a big deal... if you have medical care. If I didn't, I would have been dead in a month.

    In other words, I never would have made it to adulthood without comprehensive medical care. And I'm a healthy person.

    The same is true of anyone who's ever have appendicitis, asthma, severe allergies, or even a cavity. All of these are common, and can result in death if left untreated.

  10. #20
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Again though, breaking down state by state can be fallacious.
    If you go even further, and do by county, you may find that places with higher population density tend to be the biggest areas of welfare use.

    Someone posted this a long while back, if I remember correctly.
    True. There's a connection between having to live close to others, and understanding that you need others. I suspect this is why rural areas are conservative.

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