View Poll Results: Are Entitlement Neccessary?

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  • Yes

    20 50.00%
  • No

    14 35.00%
  • Sometimes.

    5 12.50%
  • Don't know.

    1 2.50%
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Thread: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

  1. #101
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    No, I don't think charities will spring up to take the place of government because many charities are struggling even with government assistance. I do not believe that humans are inherently altruistic, I believe humans are inherently selfish.
    We disagree. You think more government is the answer. I wonder why?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    You seemed to misunderstand the point I was making. Collectively, meaning the entire amount of money that exist in the united states, could pay for everyone to work and live decently. The reason that doesn't happen is largely due to income gap. The government's involvement or lack there of is not the driving factor.
    Perfect. You want to make everyone slaves of the new, more powerful central government. Awesome!

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    You also don't know what you are talking about.
    That may very well be. We will just have to see how things play out.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Very few regulations actually contribute to "job loss".
    How do you know? Have you created any new businesses lately? My last attempt was more than a decade ago. The regulations then were stifling.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Furthermore, the EPA is necessary because environmental damage just doesn't affect two consenting parties, it affects everyone.
    It could be dispensed with easily. All would benefit. Rich nations clean. Poor socialist nations pollute.

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Cutting taxes will not spur job growth either, 20 years of tax cuts did nothing to the job market. Job are created by supply and demand. Demand is affected by the income gap.
    Simply amazing. Tax rate cuts spur economic growth every time they are tried. Every time.

  2. #102
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    We disagree. You think more government is the answer. I wonder why?
    No I do not.


    Perfect. You want to make everyone slaves of the new, more powerful central government. Awesome!
    Way to miss the point again.

    Tax rate cuts spur economic growth every time they are tried. Every time.
    False correlation made repeatably by the right. Our biggest boom happened when taxes were nearly 80%

  3. #103
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I think people should be more charitable,
    If we are conservative all of the evidence points out that we are. If we are liberal the opposite rule applies. Conservatives are charitable with their own money. Liberals are generous with other people's money.

    [
    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    I don't think they should be forced to be charitable, but I don't think leaving someone to die because people are selfish is right either
    Government does not force me to do anything. Except pay, pay, pay. Government takes care of its own selfish need first.

  4. #104
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    If we are conservative all of the evidence points out that we are. If we are liberal the opposite rule applies. Conservatives are charitable with their own money. Liberals are generous with other people's money.
    Where is the evidence to support this claim? I've herd it many time, never been prover to be true. Also, in my experience, the charity is through religious organization with the desired result to win converts. Thats not altruism.
    Last edited by xpiher; 05-30-11 at 11:05 PM.

  5. #105
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    “We are the U.S.A and can do these things to where we do not have to take anything from anyone.” - Kali

    Which explains why we’ve borrowed so much from China.

    “The first step would to be create a law to where any and all food establishments (and places that serve any kind of food be it canned, boxed, fresh, etc) have a right to feed the hungry due to the waste they have to toss out cannot be sued by the people they are helping.” - Kali

    So you want to dictate that McDonalds, Kroger, etc. must feed the hungry?

    “Set up check places where any and all food are free for the taking as long as you sign off on a waver that says you are taking this food to eat and blah, blah, blah (legal jargon) and this would also create jobs for these places as they would have to set up and hire people to hand out this food, make people sign off, etc. The same thing could be done in reguards to clothing and other goods that get tossed. We waste so much of this stuff when it could be going for the better good of/for the people.” - Kali

    So who is going to pay for the food, clothing and “other goods”? Who is going to pay the salary of all the people it is going to take to perform these tasks? Even if you are just talking about “waste” there is still an expense associated with providing these goods to the people who need them.
    Yes. Let the food places and any stores that sale food feed the hungry rather than dumping the food and other items in the trash. What is wrong with that? We are a wasteful nation and do not have to be.
    BTW, I did not say we should make food places feed people. I said they could have a right to feed to homeless rather than tossing perfectly fine food in trash cans. I do not expect them to feed the world as that would be counterproductive for them. But they should legally be able to pass food that is gonna get tossed along to the hungry. It is the right thing to do.

    As I said we need new jobs here at home so this would create new jobs or instead of hiring new folks just have the people that have to keep track off all this stuff and toss it in garbage bins? Have them hand it out to the pooor and hungry. How can this not be a good idea?
    Last edited by Kali; 05-31-11 at 12:31 AM.
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Kali View Post
    Yes. Let the food places and any stores that sale food feed the hungry rather than dumping the food and other items in the trash. What is wrong with that? We are a wasteful nation and do not have to be.

    As I said we need new jobs here at home so this would create new jobs or instead of hiring new folks just have the people that have to keep track off all this stuff and toss it in garbage bins? Have them hand it out to the pooor and hungry. How can this not be a good idea?
    Because its hard

  7. #107
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Yes. Let the food places and any stores that sale food feed the hungry rather than dumping the food and other items in the trash. What is wrong with that? We are a wasteful nation and do not have to be. - Kali

    I get it but there is always a cost associated with such efforts. Who is going to pay that cost?

    As I said we need new jobs here at home so this would create new jobs or instead of hiring new folks just have the people that have to keep track off all this stuff and toss it in garbage bins? Have them hand it out to the pooor and hungry. - Kali

    Im not sure how it creates jobs but I can certainly see how it can add to a persons already existing job. So these people should be paid more, yes? Are you willing to pay more for your groceries as Kroger to support such an activity because somebody has to foot-the-bill.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  8. #108
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by The Baron View Post
    I’m not sure how it creates jobs but I can certainly see how it can add to a persons already existing job. So these people should be paid more, yes? Are you willing to pay more for your groceries as Kroger to support such an activity because somebody has to foot-the-bill.[/SIZE][/FONT]
    Charities typically fulfill these services. All Kroger has to do is switch from dumping it in the trash to dumping in the hands of food banks. Sell by date =/= expiration date.

    Case in point Dive! The Film - Trailer

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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Yea, I've seen this before and some similar ones. Charities are wonderful and operate at thier own expense and at the expense of those who choose to donate.

    But she had mentioned passings laws and such...so how far does she think the governmnet should go to force such "charity", I wonder...
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  10. #110
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    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Where is the evidence to support this claim? I've herd it many time, never been prover to be true. Also, in my experience, the charity is through religious organization with the desired result to win converts. Thats not altruism.
    If you don't like the answer change the assumptions and the definitions.

    I spent five minutes with Google:

    Dataset of the Day: Who is more Generous? Republicans or Democrats?

    "So are liberals stingier than conservatives?. The data has suggested that they are. One thing that I am unhappy with is that this data is somewhat dated with the most recent year being in 2004 for philanthropy stats from the Catalogue of Philanthropy. I am anxious to see if the trend has continued into the present and am eager to compare 2008 charity figures with red and blue states from the 2008 Presidential Election.

    Overall, I like how Kristof does not see the data as a negative, but a way to encourage more of his fellow liberals to contribute more. He states in his article, 'Come on liberals, redeem yourselves, and put your wallets where your hearts are.'”

    There were lots more. Perhaps if we read them all we could draw better conclusions. This is a start.

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