View Poll Results: Are Entitlement Neccessary?

Voters
40. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes

    20 50.00%
  • No

    14 35.00%
  • Sometimes.

    5 12.50%
  • Don't know.

    1 2.50%
Page 10 of 15 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast
Results 91 to 100 of 146

Thread: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

  1. #91
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    06-05-11 @ 05:31 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Other
    Posts
    117

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by NGNM85 View Post
    ILL
    One very simple, modest initiative would be to adopt single-payer healthcare, and let the government negotiate on drug prices, like they do in many other countries. This would make medical care substantially more accessible, more efficient, and lower costs, allowing more Americans to get the treatment they need. It also happens to be what the majority of Americans have wanted, for many years, or, as John Kerry put it; 'Not politically possible.', which is a testament to the state of democracy in this country. This would have a substantial effect on the economy, as the high costs of medical care is one of the leading causes of debt and bankruptcy. It would also probably improve productivity as Americans would get the treatment they need, and get it sooner, so they can get back to work.
    It would be interesting to see a full public audit, from top to bottom of pharmaceutical companies. How much money is spent on research, how much profit they make, advertisements, what kinds of research they are doing, the entire money flow process. The justification is for reasons like you mentioned. But I would like to also include that fake research has been published to encourage the buying of pharmaceuticals and most importantly, many of our lives are in their hands. It's not just another company, it's a life or death issue for some and I think they should not have the same privacy protections as other capitalistic enterprises due the power over peoples lives they have. If the profits cannot be justified based upon what is discovered in a public audit, we should put a ceiling on their profits, even confiscate patents where profit abuse occurs, effectively making the price of medicine more affordable.

  2. #92
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    10-16-11 @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,845

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Entitlement handouts are -always- optional.
    They are a luxury that some will argue can be afforded by wealthy societies, and are mandated by certain moral values.
    "Necessary"? No.

  3. #93
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    This is an interesting thread.

    I have a friend who is a slaveowner. He is a nice enough guy but he says he just cannot live without his slaves. He needs their labor to make his life bearable. I know this because I am one of his slaves. I work two days most weeks for his benefit. Some weeks I have to work three days for his benefit. He tells me I should be very happy that I am allowed to keep any of the wealth I create.

    His needs are unlimited. He needs food, clothing, shelter, medical care, and education. He does not need a job. That is what I am for. I work. He benefits. To his credit he truthfully tells me that anyone can become a slaveholder like him and lead a life with plenty of time to get very, very good at World of Warcraft. While I am working as his slave, he plays. Fortunately he seldom gloats about it. He tells me all that I need to do is stop working. There are still plenty of slaves out there so anyone who wants to can live a life of leisure.

    I noted that the very idea that businesses create jobs was lightly dismissed in the first few posts. This is the crux of our problems. Many of you are Marxists, socialists, or some other "ist". More and more I realize that the labels don't work. Ronald Reagan used the term "statist." I am beginning to like the term statist. I will explain statism in some later post.

    Here are some things I believe:

    o Nations do not become great nor prosperous due to government spending
    o The federal government is spending nearly twice as much as it takes from taxpayers
    o About one-half of the people in the US do not pay federal income taxes
    o Governments do not create wealth. Government consume wealth
    o Government jobs do not create wealth. Government jobs consume wealth
    o The United States Constitution is not a Marxist document
    - There are no provisions to take wealth from one individual to give it to another
    - "From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs", is not found in the US Constitution.

    No one is entitled to any good or service. Ever. To believe so has always led to tyranny.

    My daughter has a socialist friend. She believes I should pay for her education because she wants one and I am "rich". "From each according to his abilities..." And she wants an education. "To each according to his needs."

    Many of you believe I should pay for your health care. It is nonsense. You do not have the right to make me your slave, even if you really, really want something.

    One of you said that some European nations have no debt. This is false. The very best case is Luxembourg which has a debt to GDP ratio of about 18%. Most are so bad they describe it as a debt crisis.

    That is enough for now. Thanks for reading.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 05-30-11 at 04:05 PM.

  4. #94
    Professor xpiher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-23-12 @ 10:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,993

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post

    No one is entitled to any good or service. Ever. To believe so has always led to tyranny.
    So people should just be left to die if no one is willing to pick up the tab if said person cannot afford whatever it is?

    Collectively, the united states has the money to provide basic life goods to everyone willing to work. Collectively, the united states has the money to ensure everyone is employed. The only reason we don't have full employment of everyone who wants to work is mainly due to greed.
    Last edited by xpiher; 05-30-11 at 04:14 PM.

  5. #95
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Huntsville, AL
    Last Seen
    03-03-17 @ 10:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    13,813

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    So people should just be left to die if no one is willing to pick up the tab if said person cannot afford whatever it is?
    Is that what you believe will happen if the government does not take from me to give to you? Is it far more likely that the enormous numbers of charities would help out?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Collectively, the united states has the money to provide basic life goods to everyone willing to work.
    Where, in your opinion, does the two trillion dollars come from? And why do you, and the Congress believe it is okay to spend nearly an additional dollar for every dollar it takes from the productive part of society? Earlier today I listened to a brief audio clip from some Obama supporters. They were elated that Obama was going to give them stuff. They had no idea where the money comes from. Nor did they care to know.

    Do you believe individuals have any responsibility to care for themselves? Or are you much like my friend, a slave owner?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    Collectively, the united states has the money to ensure everyone is employed.
    Aha. So in addition to everything else being handed to you a government job is also an entitlement? Are you familiar with businesses? Do you know how they are created? Are you aware of why they exist?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    The only reason we don't have full employment of everyone who wants to work is mainly due to greed.
    This is something we can agree upon. Government greed, the desire to control everything, to regulate the very life out of our economy is the primary reason why we don't have full employment. A few, very simple measures would greatly increase job availability. Cut all tax rates in half. Make sure everyone pays them. Eliminate nearly all of the federal departments (education, EPA for example) and their stultifying regulations. Then get out of the way.
    Last edited by Misterveritis; 05-30-11 at 07:23 PM.

  6. #96
    Professor xpiher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-23-12 @ 10:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,993

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by Misterveritis View Post
    Is that what you believe will happen if the government does not take from me to give to you? Is it far more likely that the enormous numbers of charities would help out?
    No, I don't think charities will spring up to take the place of government because many charities are struggling even with government assistance. I do not believe that humans are inherently altruistic, I believe humans are inherently selfish.

    Where, in your opinion, does the two trillion dollars come from? And why do you, and the Congress believe it is okay to spend nearly an additional dollar for every dollar it takes from the productive part of society? Earlier today I listened to a brief audio clip from some Obama supporters. They were elated that Obama was going to give them stuff. They had no idea where the money comes from. Nor did they care to know.
    You seemed to misunderstand the point I was making. Collectively, meaning the entire amount of money that exist in the united states, could pay for everyone to work and live decently. The reason that doesn't happen is largely due to income gap. The government's involvement or lack there of is not the driving factor.

    Do you believe individuals have any responsibility to care for themselves?
    Completely misunderstood the point.

    Aha. So in addition to everything else being handed to you a government job is also an entitlement? Are you familiar with businesses? Do you know how they are created? Are you aware of why they exist?
    Completely misunderstood the point


    This is something we can agree upon. Government greed, the desire to control everything, to regulate the very life out of our economy is the primary reason why we don't have full employment. A few, very simple measures would greatly increase job availability. Cut all tax rates in half. Make sure everyone pays them. Eliminate nearly all of the federal departments (education, EPA for example) and their stultifying regulations. Then get out of the way.
    Completely misunderstood the point. You also don't know what you are talking about. Very few regulations actually contribute to "job loss". Furthermore, the EPA is necessary because environmental damage just doesn't affect two consenting parties, it affects everyone. Cutting taxes will not spur job growth either, 20 years of tax cuts did nothing to the job market.

    Job are created by supply and demand. Demand is affected by the income gap.
    Last edited by xpiher; 05-30-11 at 07:29 PM.

  7. #97
    Sage

    Mason66's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:52 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    19,449

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by MistressNomad View Post
    I think the question was whether they are necessary to have available in a first-world society. Not that every individual needs some sort of entitlement.
    So n that case yes and sometimes are really the same answer.

  8. #98
    Banned
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Last Seen
    10-16-11 @ 03:14 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Very Conservative
    Posts
    1,845

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by xpiher View Post
    So people should just be left to die if no one is willing to pick up the tab if said person cannot afford whatever it is?
    Your right to life does not give you legtimate claim to the fruit of my labor.

  9. #99
    Guru
    The Baron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Somewhere in Dixie
    Last Seen
    11-26-17 @ 11:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    2,803

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    “We are the U.S.A and can do these things to where we do not have to take anything from anyone.” - Kali

    Which explains why we’ve borrowed so much from China.

    “The first step would to be create a law to where any and all food establishments (and places that serve any kind of food be it canned, boxed, fresh, etc) have a right to feed the hungry due to the waste they have to toss out cannot be sued by the people they are helping.” - Kali

    So you want to dictate that McDonalds, Kroger, etc. must feed the hungry?

    “Set up check places where any and all food are free for the taking as long as you sign off on a waver that says you are taking this food to eat and blah, blah, blah (legal jargon) and this would also create jobs for these places as they would have to set up and hire people to hand out this food, make people sign off, etc. The same thing could be done in reguards to clothing and other goods that get tossed. We waste so much of this stuff when it could be going for the better good of/for the people.” - Kali

    So who is going to pay for the food, clothing and “other goods”? Who is going to pay the salary of all the people it is going to take to perform these tasks? Even if you are just talking about “waste” there is still an expense associated with providing these goods to the people who need them.
    "Liberalism is a doctrine fostered by a delusional and illogical people and rabidly promoted by the mainstream media and ruling elite which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end." - unknown

  10. #100
    Professor xpiher's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Last Seen
    04-23-12 @ 10:33 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    1,993

    Re: Basic Shelter/Food/Medical Entitlements Neccessary in First World Governments?

    Quote Originally Posted by PzKfW IVe View Post
    Your right to life does not give you legtimate claim to the fruit of my labor.
    So you are an objectivist? I think people should be more charitable, I don't think they should be forced to be charitable, but I don't think leaving someone to die because people are selfish is right either
    Last edited by xpiher; 05-30-11 at 10:00 PM.

Page 10 of 15 FirstFirst ... 89101112 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •