View Poll Results: Good, bad, harmless, legalize?

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Thread: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

  1. #71
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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    I base my biggest objection to it on the fact that many sibling relationships begin during early childhood and/or prepubesence, not during adulthood. There is reason to believe that at least some of these relationships are not healthy relationships, a lot like teacher/student relationships, counselor/patient relationships, or parent/child relationships because there is no way to know how much the relationship developed naturally or how much it was influenced by the slight authority that one sibling would have over another sibling if they were raised together during early childhood, and most especially the bigger the age difference between the two siblings is.

    I don't think that we should encourage such relationships in general, but there certainly could be some considerations made for siblings who weren't raised together and possibly other reasons.

    It is not the same issue as homosexuality though. And people being against incest but being for homosexuality are not being hypocritical when they can give sound reason for their objections that really are more than just "it's icky" or "it's against my morality". You may not agree that the reasoning is enough to justify preventing them from having the right to be together but it doesn't mean that it isn't at least a better argument than those who are anti-homosexuality and/or anti-SSM.

    Along with this, siblings already do have some of the legal rights that homosexuals are being denied by the very virtue of being siblings. Blood relatives automatically are granted some legal recognition, although it is not nearly as much as spouses, it is more than just roommates or girlfriends/boyfriends.
    fair points, but I believe that establishing whether or not a relationship is "healthy" is a truly subjective exercise...after all, being a homosexual couple in puritanical New England probably wasn't very healthy either.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  2. #72
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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    fair points, but I believe that establishing whether or not a relationship is "healthy" is a truly subjective exercise...after all, being a homosexual couple in puritanical New England probably wasn't very healthy either.
    True, but we establish that we believe certain types of relationships are automatically going to be "unhealthy", such as the ones I listed, based on generally pyschological studies and reviews. The studies should be conducted by qualified pyschologists and peer reviewed. How do we determine that student/teacher relationships are wrong, even if the student is over 18? How do we determine that a counselor/patient relationship is wrong? And, it could easily be argued whether we should consider parent/child relationships after the child reaches adulthood as wrong or not as well, especially if the child was not raised in the house with that parent or had very little contact with the parent.

    I don't honestly know where we should set the threshold because I am not a psychologist of any kind, but I believe that most studies I have come across have said that many sibling relationships start because of abusive and/or neglectful parents.

    I have a relative who was abused as a child by his older brother. It definitely affected him. But there wasn't that big of a gap in their ages and, I don't know all the details, but it didn't sound from what I do know like it was violent, just sexual. I know this is just anecdotal, but it seems to be the normal for most of those situations like this that I have heard about, online or the one on the stereo (sounds weird, but it was on a call-in show).
    "A woman is like a teabag, you never know how strong she is until she gets in hot water." - Eleanor Roosevelt

    Keep your religion out of other people's marriages.

  3. #73
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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Wake View Post
    Who's mouth am I refering to, Redress?

    Not his.

    I talk of people both religious or not against incest.

    But since you blundered in, are you tolerant of consenting incest adults?
    So you where not trying to assign a position to any one person, just claiming that people are adopting a position they are not.
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  4. #74
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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by roguenuke View Post
    True, but we establish that we believe certain types of relationships are automatically going to be "unhealthy", such as the ones I listed, based on generally pyschological studies and reviews. The studies should be conducted by qualified pyschologists and peer reviewed. How do we determine that student/teacher relationships are wrong, even if the student is over 18? How do we determine that a counselor/patient relationship is wrong? And, it could easily be argued whether we should consider parent/child relationships after the child reaches adulthood as wrong or not as well, especially if the child was not raised in the house with that parent or had very little contact with the parent.

    I don't honestly know where we should set the threshold because I am not a psychologist of any kind, but I believe that most studies I have come across have said that many sibling relationships start because of abusive and/or neglectful parents.

    I have a relative who was abused as a child by his older brother. It definitely affected him. But there wasn't that big of a gap in their ages and, I don't know all the details, but it didn't sound from what I do know like it was violent, just sexual. I know this is just anecdotal, but it seems to be the normal for most of those situations like this that I have heard about, online or the one on the stereo (sounds weird, but it was on a call-in show).
    Everything you've said here is a good point, however personally I think each relationship should be judged on its own merits. Surely there are tons and tons of heterosexual, non-incestual relationships that are just as unhealthy. Perhaps incestual relationships are inherently more so, but legally I don't think there should be a ban on incest marriage if two consenting individuals want to do that.

    And i'm also interested to know how much of the "unhealthiness" in incestual relationships is inherent, and how much of it is socially constructed.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?



    Hawt?
    Michael J Petrilli-"Is School Choice Enough?"-A response to the recent timidity of American conservatives toward education reform. https://nationalaffairs.com/publicat...-choice-enough

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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post


    Hawt?
    Was Kay Parker the original MILF?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  7. #77
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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    Was Kay Parker the original MILF?
    apparently she is the original SILF.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Everything you've said here is a good point, however personally I think each relationship should be judged on its own merits. Surely there are tons and tons of heterosexual, non-incestual relationships that are just as unhealthy. Perhaps incestual relationships are inherently more so, but legally I don't think there should be a ban on incest marriage if two consenting individuals want to do that.

    And i'm also interested to know how much of the "unhealthiness" in incestual relationships is inherent, and how much of it is socially constructed.
    Well, I can tell you that when my paternal parental unit molested me, he told me that this is how fathers teach their daughters about sex. I had no reason not to believe him until my mom found the polaroids he took of me. She of course came completely unhinged, but hey. That was probably just social conditioning. She went on to tell me that since I was old enough to know better, it was actually an 'affair.'

    That answer your question any?

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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    apparently she is the original SILF.
    OK, I give, what is SILF?
    We became a great nation not because we are a nation of cynics. We became a great nation because we are a nation of believers - Lindsey Graham

    Quote Originally Posted by Fiddytree View Post
    Uh oh Megyn...your vagina witchcraft is about ready to be exposed.

  10. #80
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    Re: Incest - Good, Bad, Ugly?

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    So you where not trying to assign a position to any one person, just claiming that people are adopting a position they are not.
    I'll cut to the chase by asking if you think there's no pro-homosexual people who are morally-bigoted against incestual people.
    Last edited by Wake; 06-08-11 at 10:22 PM.

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