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Government regulation of Churches?

Government deal with churches?

  • Do nothing.

    Votes: 13 61.9%

  • Do everything - (some have built in Starbucks)

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Do something (specify)

    Votes: 4 19.0%

  • Don't know/care

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Total voters
    21
Wake said:
Thousands of people are suckered into forming over millions of dollars. It's ludicrous that pastors work over the crowds and live lavishly. Ever noticed how a lot of "humble" pastors live? Expensive cars, clothes, suits?
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my father is a minister. when we were little, once a month we got Shoney's, and for our Birthday we could get Outback; but only the birthday kid got steak - the other kid got the hamburger. generally you are describing roughly 0.1% of that job field.
 
cpwill said:
my father is a minister. when we were little, once a month we got Shoney's, and for our Birthday we could get Outback; but only the birthday kid got steak - the other kid got the hamburger. generally you are describing roughly 0.1% of that job field.
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Our pastor when I was growing up worked full time with the post office just to be able to support his family, and still found time to visit people in need every single night.
 
Redress, I ask simple and deep questions to gain understanding. Understanding is intelligence. We take our beliefs for granted; we just say what we think yet we're no more credible than anyone else. (You can pm me or post an inquisitive post if you wish to understand me further)

*This issue is a group of notions I disagree with. But why?
 
However, when it comes to pastors, it is shades of grey. I know of multiple pastors from me and my families experiences. TV pastors are wealthy. They live like proud kings. Large churches give rise to worldly/materialistic pastors.

I know of those who cheat on their wives, sexually bully the women, and drive expensive cars. You have not seen what I have seen.
 
Churches should be tax exempt as long as they are only doing the work of teaching religion or charity work. If they get involved in anyway in the political arena they should not only be taxed but taxed from the first dime they ever collected. The church should be fined and the pastor or minister or priest should also receive a hefty fine as well. If they refuse to pay nail the doors shut.
But if they are in the business of religion and that alone they should have the tax exempt status they now enjoy. The same could be said for any religious group. Once they have breached the political arena they should be shut down.
 
Wake said:
However, when it comes to pastors, it is shades of grey. I know of multiple pastors from me and my families experiences. TV pastors are wealthy. They live like proud kings. Large churches give rise to worldly/materialistic pastors.

I know of those who cheat on their wives, sexually bully the women, and drive expensive cars. You have not seen what I have seen.
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I doubt that you've seen what you've seen. Some TV Pastors probably sell alot of books, and some are undoubtably corrupt. My wife's home church sends out video's of the services to the members who are home-ridden, and often the service that day will end up at some point on the television or radio at night. The pastor is an impressive and thoroughly middle-class guy.

Sure you get your small percent. but that is what they are - the small percent. You may as well declare that kids who plays baseball will end up in the Pro's.
 
Wake said:
Redress, I ask simple and deep questions to gain understanding. Understanding is intelligence. We take our beliefs for granted; we just say what we think yet we're no more credible than anyone else. (You can pm me or post an inquisitive post if you wish to understand me further)

*This issue is a group of notions I disagree with. But why?
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1) your questions are not deep

2) you avoid answering my questions. Why?

3) Who are you quoting and where are the quotes from in the comments you put in quotation marks?
 
Wake said:
Should churches be defunded? If I recall they believe, iirc, taxpayer money. Or do they pay no taxes?

Isn't it also true that churches, especially large churches, are run like businesses? Tax it. Iirc, I once saw a church worker bring a wheelbarrow down the aisle for tithes. This is true.

These pseudo-businesses require tithes up to 10%. Perhaps catholicism can be an exception because it's a donation system.

Do you think the government should regulate preaching, like monitoring for hate speech against homosexuals and prostitutes? Should churches be entirely defended? Taxed? Or the tithe system abolished?

Should they be dealt with?
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The government should not do nor can it do anything regarding churches seeing how there is the "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" in the first amendment.


Besides that if you start taxing the churches you open the door for them to have more influence in government just like any other business that is taxed. JUst like Kenneth Copeland, Paul Crouch and all those other televangelist told their viewers GOd needs a new Satellite Dish, God wants me to live a mega mansion, God needs money for this, God needs money for that they will say God needs money so we can fight the government or God needs money so we can try to enlighten the hearts of those in office.
 
Redress said:
1) your questions are not deep

2) you avoid answering my questions. Why?

3) Who are you quoting and where are the quotes from in the comments you put in quotation marks?
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Then what is depth, Redress?

Instead of having a discussion with a discussion, wouldn't it be more practical to a specific thread or a pm discussion about it? That way I won't have to keep explaining my philosophical way of gaining understanding from the perspectives and beliefs of others.

I made those quotes. I was hinting at my Sig statement when you asked.
 
Wake said:
Should churches be defunded? If I recall they believe, iirc, taxpayer money. Or do they pay no taxes?

Isn't it also true that churches, especially large churches, are run like businesses? Tax it. Iirc, I once saw a church worker bring a wheelbarrow down the aisle for tithes. This is true.

These pseudo-businesses require tithes up to 10%. Perhaps catholicism can be an exception because it's a donation system.

Do you think the government should regulate preaching, like monitoring for hate speech against homosexuals and prostitutes? Should churches be entirely defended? Taxed? Or the tithe system abolished?

Should they be dealt with?
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A lot of these mega-churches openly flaunt the fact that they tell their congregations how to vote. Churches consistently put themselves in a middle of a debate, as if their religious opinions matters squat on political matters.

F that.

Remove all churches tax-free statuses. You wanna get into politics? Pay to play suckas. Now put up the cash or shut your ass.
 
the only churches I have seen that have consistently been used as political platforms are black churches.

and Churches have every right to tell their members anything they want to - their tax status is not based on their opinions (that would be a violation of the Constitution), but rather on their charitable work.

if it makes ya'll feel any better - pastors get double taxed. My father, for example, has to pay the individual and the employer match of the FICA tax; meaning he is paying out over 15% of his income before he even gets to the income tax portion.
 
Wake said:
Thousands of people are suckered into forming over millions of dollars. It's ludicrous that pastors work over the crowds and live lavishly. Ever noticed how a lot of "humble" pastors live? Expensive cars, clothes, suits?

Think about it.
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Misunderstanding: the "church" is tax exempt. Employees salaries (same with ALL 501(c)(3)s) are not. Falwell, Robertson and all the other rip-off preachers have to pay taxes on their income. Their ministries (giving dolls to poor kids in Haiti, or whatever) are not taxed.

It is as it should be. Despite the fact that I find most of their messages to be way to overtly political. Those who cross the direct line of supporting parties or candidates should be investigated however. And those occur on both sides of the political aisle.
 
I can see why promulgating crazy nonsense might get you a padded room, I don't see any reason why it should disqualify one from paying taxes.
 
Ikari said:
It's fine the way it is. I mean, they don't really pay taxes (well not property taxes anyway), not sure if clergy income is taxable or not. Maybe you can change one or two things in the tax code.
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I used to manage maintenance at a very large church. To avoid taxes the clergymen had his lavish home built on the extensive church grounds. Had his personal vehicle under "church use" and all his groceries and utilities were part of "church functions and usage" so he only needed to claim only a tiny income yet lived much better then your average American.
 
Your Star said:
They aren't forcing anyone to give them money.

I believe churches should be tax exempt for one reason, and one reason only. So the government can't phase out an unpopular religion(or all religion) by taxing it to death.
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The power to tax is the power to destroy....

And most churches are not nearly as well funded as those mega churches and many churches do a LOT of charity work in their communities...
 
Wake said:
Why shouldn't they, Your Star? It's trending in many other nations. Besides, it's hate speech and indoctrination. Let the government help teach the kids in the public schools.

We don't need churches anymore. We've clearly progressed further than you. NoW we wait for the others.
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Wow!! You should move to China with that attitude...
 
I'm not a fan of tax exemption for churches and religion.
It forces the government to recognize religions as valid or invalid.

I do not believe that scientology is a valid religion, yet the government does and they are tax exempt.
 
ludahai said:
The power to tax is the power to destroy...
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This is too much. No one is saying that the government should be allowed to tax churches/religious activities as much as they want without a vote. Taxes are not the power to destroy, unless we remove voting and the basic protections of representation from the equation. By authorizing taxes (we, the people), we do not give the power to destroy us - we give the government the power to serve us. Only when the safeguards established in the system have been tossed aside does the above worldview have legitimacy.
 
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Churches should be taxed if they don't engage in charitable activities.
 
If Churches are going to take an active part in our Politics, then they should pay taxes..

By the way.. I didn't vote in the poll because I didn't see how it applied to the subject at hand..
 
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ecofarm said:
This is too much. No one is saying that the government should be allowed to tax churches/religious activities as much as they want without a vote. Taxes are not the power to destroy, unless we remove voting and the basic protections of representation from the equation. By authorizing taxes (we, the people), we do not give the power to destroy us - we give the government the power to serve us. Only when the safeguards established in the system have been tossed aside does the above worldview have legitimacy.
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You don't put much stock in Supreme Court opinions then, do you?
 
Churches should not be tax exempt in my opinion, but I do worry that they might use taxation as a way to stealthily regulate religions that they don't like. I'd be fine with churches being taxed if it was all the same.

They absolutely should not be monitoring churches based on hate speech. That would violate not only freedom of religion but freedom of speech too.

If there are churches which receive federal funding (I think you're wrong about this part), then they should absolutely lose that. It violates freedom of religion.
 
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