'New Antisemitism' is Thought Control

L0neW0lf · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
To elucidate you on your confusion..........

No body here is confused.

1. "anti-Zionist" and "pro-Israel" is an oxymoronic position

I agree. I did not make this claim.

2. Supporting the creation of a Jewish state is outdated.

What?

One can support the creation of a Jewish state or Jewish states, regardless of whether a Jewish state exists or not.

It already was created in 1947/48. To oppose the movement (philosophy, doctrine, whatever) the led to its creation can only mean destruction of same creation.

Again, the only person in this discussion who claims that support for Jewish statehood equals support for Zionism is you. Support for the creation of a Jewish state or states does not translate into automatic support for Zionism, or support for Jewish states that already exist. Neither does it translate into automatic support for all/any hypothetical Jewish states, just because they're Jewish. I am sure most Palestinians for example wouldn't mind the consensual creation of a Jewish state within the United States. Therefor Palestinians are anti Zionists and pro Jewish right to a state.

3. Being critical of Israeli policy since whenever is not necessarily anti-semitic.

Again, Irrelevant.

But when critics self-proclaim as anti Zionist they advocate that the Jewish homeland be dissolved. That happens to be anti-semitic.

No it isn't. A Jewish person is not born a Zionist, they choose to be so. Up until the Holocaust most Jews were either non Zionists or anti Zionists. I can of course provide more than enough reference and quotes (which you dislike) for this vocal opposition to Zionism by Jews of the past but I don't think you dispute it's existence, rather, you just choose to ignore it because of its inconvenience for your narrative.

Opposing the creation or existence of a Jewish state in principle while supporting the creation or existence of analogous states/national movements for other people is antisemitic. Opposition to Zionism does not equal opposition to Jewish statehood in principle therefor ending Zionism is not antisemitic, is not necessarily against Jewish statehood, its anti Zionist.

4. Thus your inability to distinguish sadly appears to be far from "feigned". And your inability to properly define cannot be solved by baseless accusations towards those that point it out to you.

You are feigning your inability to distinguish between support for the creation of "Jewish" states and "Zionism" as if they are mutually exclusive. My accusation is well founded.

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

L0neW0lf said:
No body here is confused.

I agree. I did not make this claim.

What?

One can support the creation of a Jewish state or Jewish states, regardless of whether a Jewish state exists or not.

Again, the only person in this discussion who claims that support for Jewish statehood equals support for Zionism is you. Support for the creation of a Jewish state or states does not translate into automatic support for Zionism, or support for Jewish states that already exist. Neither does it translate into automatic support for all/any hypothetical Jewish states, just because they're Jewish. I am sure most Palestinians for example wouldn't mind the consensual creation of a Jewish state within the United States. Therefor Palestinians are anti Zionists and pro Jewish right to a state.

Again, Irrelevant.

No it isn't. A Jewish person is not born a Zionist, they choose to be so. Up until the Holocaust most Jews were either non Zionists or anti Zionists. I can of course provide more than enough reference and quotes (which you dislike) for this vocal opposition to Zionism by Jews of the past but I don't think you dispute it's existence, rather, you just choose to ignore it because of its inconvenience for your narrative.

Opposing the creation or existence of a Jewish state in principle while supporting the creation or existence of analogous states/national movements for other people is antisemitic. Opposition to Zionism does not equal opposition to Jewish statehood in principle therefor ending Zionism is not antisemitic, is not necessarily against Jewish statehood, its anti Zionist.

You are feigning your inability to distinguish between support for the creation of "Jewish" states and "Zionism" as if they are mutually exclusive. My accusation is well founded.

to repeat

Chagos said:
You're not adding anything. You're certainly not bringing new meat to the table by repeating an untenable position that's been addressed already.

and to add..................

advocating the creation of a "new and substitute" Jewish state in the US (your example), the sake and sole purpose of which being that of dissolving the existing state of Israel, is anti-Zionist and by its nature also (mildly put) the advocation of ethnic cleansing. Which, seeing how it must by default be addressed at the existing Jewish homeland, is nothing other than blatant anti-semitism.

I already pointed out my belief that your inability to understand this is not feigned but worryingly established. Something you confirm with every further post you make.

How about dissolving the kingdom of Jordan for the sake of turning it over to the Palestinians? I mean there really never was such an entity before 1946 and its creation and recognition came about at the behest of the Brits who, up til then, had governed it ever since taking it from the Ottomans.

Pretty sure you don't like the idea and I don't blame you either. But I'm also pretty sure you hold that to be a completely different matter and in total denial of the "creation acts" being strikingly similar in their historical legitimacy or lack of same. Arrived at by the same dastardly acts of colonialism to boot.

Hardly a philosophy of anti-semitism since that's just a constructed substitute for "hatred of Jews" and never intended for use against other semites, but hardly a demonstration of endearment for a people (here Jordanians) either.

calm · Jun 2, 2016

L0neW0lf said:
No body here is confused.

Within these DP forums, you must begin to use the term "Political Zionism" rather than "Zionism" to insulate yourself against any claims of "Anti-Semitism" and "Anti-Jew".

If not, the Pro-Israel supporters will constantly use the spurious cloak of religion to justify their accusations

Calm

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

calm said:
Within these DP forums, you must begin to use the term "Political Zionism" rather than "Zionism" to insulate yourself against any claims of "Anti-Semitism" and "Anti-Jew".

If not, the Pro-Israel supporters will constantly use the spurious cloak of religion to justify their accusations

Calm

What blatant rubbish.

What is Zionism if not political?

calm · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
But when critics self-proclaim as anti Zionist they advocate that the Jewish homeland be dissolved. That happens to be anti-semitic.

How can opposition to a political movement because of its method of governing be anti-Semitic? Are you suggesting that Israel would not continue to exist if Political Zionism disappeared?

That is like saying that if Bernie Sanders won the election and formed a socialist movement (as opposed to a capitalist movement), America would cease to exist.

When Israel was accepted into the United Nations, it asked for recognition as a "Jewish State" but Roosevelt refused and it is simply known as "The State Of Israel". Not "Zionist Israel".

And just to clarify the facts .... Israel declared itself a state unilaterally.

"U.N. General Assembly Resolution 181 neither legally partitioned Palestine nor conferred upon the Zionist leadership any legal authority to unilaterally declare the existence of the Jewish state of Israel. It merely recommended that the UNSCOP partition plan be accepted and implemented by the concerned parties. Naturally, to have any weight of law, the plan, like any contract, would have to have been formally agreed upon by both parties, which it was not. Nor could the General Assembly have legally partitioned Palestine or otherwise conferred legal authority for the creation of Israel to the Zionist leadership, as it simply had no such authority to confer. When the Security Council took up the matter referred to it by the General Assembly, it could come to no consensus on how to proceed with implementing the partition plan. It being apparent that the plan could not be implemented by peaceful means, the suggestion that it be implemented by force was rejected by members of the Security Council. The simple fact of the matter is that the plan was never implemented. Numerous delegates from member states, including the U.S., arrived at the conclusion that the plan was impracticable, and, furthermore, that the Security Council had no authority to implement such a plan except by mutual consent by concerned parties, which was absent in this case."

Calm

L0neW0lf · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
to repeat and to add..................

Except of course you have not actually addressed anything, and your post only reaffirmed my accusation, that you are intentionally attempting to claim that support for the creation of a Jewish state/states can only be through support for Zionism, this of course is false. One can believe and support a Jewish right to self determination while being opposed to Zionism.

The extent of your arguments do not go beyond declaring what you believe is acceptable criticism of Zionism and what is not, as if you are some sort of authority. No, you must explain how anti Zionism (a movement emerging in Eastern/Central Europe in the 19th century) is anti Jewish. Good luck with that!

advocating the creation of a "new and substitute" Jewish state in the US (your example), the sake and sole purpose of which being that of dissolving the existing state of Israel, is anti-Zionist and by its nature also (mildly put) the advocation of ethnic cleansing. Which, seeing how it must by default be addressed at the existing Jewish homeland, is nothing other than blatant anti-semitism.

First of all in the hypothetical example I clearly added the word "consensual", ethnic cleansing requires nonconsensual population transfer in any capacity. But again perhaps you are feigning ignorance at that as well?

Even if I did not add the word consensual, I am sure you do not believe that supporting Zionism is an inherent advocation of ethnically cleansing American and European Jews to the Zionist state, do you? An American Jewish state could exist without affecting Jews outside it.

I already pointed out my belief that your inability to understand this is not feigned but worryingly established. Something you confirm with every further post you make.

As it has been demonstrated yet again just above, your accusations of antisemitism are baseless and without merit.

How about dissolving the kingdom of Jordan for the sake of turning it over to the Palestinians? I mean there really never was such an entity before 1946 and its creation and recognition came about at the behest of the Brits who, up til then, had governed it ever since taking it from the Ottomans.
Pretty sure you don't like the idea and I don't blame you either. But I'm also pretty sure you hold that to be a completely different matter and in total denial of the "creation acts" being strikingly similar in their historical legitimacy or lack of same. Arrived at by the same dastardly acts of colonialism to boot.

Again this is irrelevant to the discussion here, you are supposed to be showing how Anti Zionism is equivalent to Antisemitism. Even if the creation of Jordan is analogous to the creation of the Zionist state, this does not actually make anti Zionism anti Jewish

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

calm said:
How can opposition to a political movement because of its method of governing be anti-Semitic?

You mean like Apartheid was merely about opposing the politics of the ANC and had nothing to do with racism? Nice try and total failure, as usual?

Are you suggesting that Israel would not continue to exist if Political Zionism disappeared?

Try to pay attention eh? I'm not suggesting anything, I'm stating.

As for the rest of your deflection attempt, I bother with that as little as with the endless amount of logical fallacies the whole gish gallop contains.

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

L0neW0lf said:
Except of course ...............

..........that your constant repetition of a claim adds nothing to its validity.

I'm cutting thru all the rest of the claptrap here to re-focus.

Zionism is the political movement to establish (and henceforth maintain) a Jewish homeland in (what was then) Palestine. To be anti-Zionist would have been (at the time) the move to squash such ambitions and today would be and actually is the move of reversing the establishment of said state and, seeing how it IS established, the move of adulterating its maintenance altogether.

By whatever means, said adulteration constitutes the destruction of said established homeland (certainly from the angle of its inhabitants) and is by its very nature anti-semitic.

Just like suggesting the very same about Jordan and its people would be vastly anti-Jordanian.

Your added caveat of "consensual" is totally pointless, you know darn well that such a consensus is impossible.

calm · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
You mean like Apartheid was merely about opposing the politics of the ANC and had nothing to do with racism?

And your point being?

I thought that "opposing the politics of the ANC" had everything to do with racism. And, I might add, came to a successful and fair conclusion for the Black Folks.

And, thus opposing "Political Zionism" should be viewed the same way and perhaps the opposition to such racism will result in success for the Palestinian Folks.

You need to quit calling Israel a Jewish State.

It is not a Jewish State. It is the State Of Israel.

Calm

L0neW0lf · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
..........that your constant repetition of a claim adds nothing to its validity.

Your constant refusal to actually address it does though.

Zionism is the political movement to establish (and henceforth maintain) a Jewish homeland in (what was then) Palestine. To be anti-Zionist would have been (at the time) the move to squash such ambitions and today would be and actually is the move of reversing the establishment of said state and, seeing how it IS established, the move of adulterating its maintenance altogether.

This is incredible. We get a snippet of genuineness from you. So you do realize there is a difference between a Jewish state/states and Zionism after all.

By whatever means, said adulteration constitutes the destruction of said established homeland (certainly from the angle of its inhabitants)

Agreed.

and is by its very nature anti-semitic.

And here we have it again. Your opinion repeated as a statement of fact. How is it by its "very nature" anti-semitic? you have repeatedly failed to explain this. One can oppose the existence of any state for any reason. Where is your evidence that the opposition to Zionism is due to the Jewish nature of the Zionist state as opposed to other legitimate reasons to oppose the movement?

Antisemitism being bigotry against Jews by virtue of them being Jewish, where is your evidence that anti Zionism is due to Zionists being Jews?

Your added caveat of "consensual" is totally pointless, you know darn well that such a consensus is impossible.

That is hilarious coming from you, after all you are arguing people who oppose Zionism and existence of what is now Israel are inherently racist against Jews (and by Jews you clearly mean Zionist Jews who support the existence of a Jewish state living in Israel, there are Jews in Israel who don't support its existence after all). Whereas you make no similar argument that Zionists are not inherently racist for Zionism which did not and does not bother with people's consent but I digress.

As I have pointed out before, support for the creation of a Jewish state anywhere and support for the dissolution of the Zionist state does not imply forcible transfer of Jews, the same way support for Zionism does not inherently imply support for the forcible expulsion of Jews from the rest of the world to Israel.

Moreover, what I said was that Palestinians might hypothetically support the creation of an American Jewish state with consent of the people involved. Making them both pro Jewish right to a state and anti Zionists. Whether or not this is a feasible scenario was not the purpose behind the hypothetical, it was simply demonstrating a fact that Zionism and support for a Jewish state are not mutually exclusive.

And no, I don't know darn well that a Jewish state cannot be formed without consent.

Just like suggesting the very same about Jordan and its people would be vastly anti-Jordanian.

Again with the false equivalence, Jordanians are not even slightly as guilty as Zionists are and are not under the same moral and legal obligations Zionists are. But I'll play along, a citizen of Jordan is Jordanian, dissolution of Jordan could be said to be anti Jordanian, and not inherent anti Arab racism, a citizen of Israel is an Israeli, dissolution of Israel would be anti Israeli not anti Jewish. Yet again you proclaim as fact that "Jew" is synonymous with "Israeli/Zionist" when it is simply not true.

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

calm said:
And your point being?

I already knew you weren't going to get it but thanks for confirming.

I thought that "opposing the politics of the ANC" had everything to do with racism. And, I might add, came to a successful and fair conclusion for the Black Folks.

What the heck are you on about here? Of course it had to do with racism, that's what the comparison was all about.

And, thus opposing "Political Zionism" should be viewed the same way

Are you actually capable of following your own leaps of logic? So opposition to Zionism is as racist as opposing ANC policy was? Well, yeah, I already hinted at that but thanks anyway.:roll:

and perhaps the opposition to such racism

ye gods man, you're all awash. By this very combobulated logic you're actually calling the policy of the ANC racist, not the opposition to it

will result in success for the Palestinian Folks

at the expense of kicking the Jews of Israel right out, eh? Well, good luck with denying the anti-semitism ingrained in that one.

You need to quit calling Israel a Jewish State.

Whatever I need to quit doing is not your call

It is not a Jewish State. It is the State Of Israel.

Well, instead of offering whatever version you prefer, go ask its inhabitants what they hold it to be. Seeing how they're citizens of a sovereign nation their take is bound to be more pertinent than yours.

calm · Jun 2, 2016

Okay .... as long as we understand each other ..... not that we agree.

Critics of "Political Zionism" can not be called racist, because Zionism is a Political Movement, And can not be described as routing for the destruction of Israel or of being an Anti-Semitic because Israel is not a Jewish State, and Israel will survive even if Political Zionism disappears in the same way that Botha in South Africa disappeared.

Calm

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

Frankly I can't be bothered with the major part of your gish galloping as little as I can be with that of calm. The only things I find worthy of address are subsequently

L0neW0lf said:
This is incredible. We get a snippet of genuineness from you.

as finally being an acknowledgement of the explanation (mine) it refers to, irrespective of what combobulated logic of conclusion you then let follow in the next sentence.

and

Agreed.

....voicing that you concur with destruction of said state (of Israel) being a fundamental aim of anti-zionism. Okay, if you propagate that on account of wishing to kick a whole people out, I don't really care what label you find appropriate for yourself by such an attitude. On the nature of those very people I know what label I'll assign though.

I guess that frequently heard chants (not of necessity from you) of "kill the Jews" are just a manifestation of many Arabs incapacity to pronounce "Israeli" properly. Since the late 1920s one would have thought there'd been enough time to learn though.

As for the rest of your above post.........well, already addressed before the quote.

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

calm said:
Okay .... as long as we understand each other .....

The rest of what follows is a clear indication that you either understand nothing at all or are wilfully refusing to. Consequently I'm not going to grace your prevaricating misrepresentations of what I said with any further comment.

L0neW0lf · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
Frankly I can't be bothered with the major part of your gish galloping as little as I can be with that of calm. The only things I find worthy of address are subsequently as finally being an acknowledgement of the explanation (mine) it refers to, irrespective of what combobulated logic of conclusion you then let follow in the next sentence.

It is not at all surprising that you are unable to address a single argument that I have presented, failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist, instead believing by repeating your claim that "anti Zionism is anti Semitic" that we are all going to be awed and convinced because... I am not sure why? perhaps you believe your word is gospel or something.

You began by feigning ignorance at the fact that support for a Jewish state or Jewish states and opposition for transforming Palestine in particular into a Jewish state ( that is Zionism) are not inherently contradictory and then proceeded to insinuate they are without once actually explaining how that is the case.

Of course it is only now in the last post that you have explained that Zionism is not just support for the creation of a Jewish state, (and by extension therefor opposition to it to the exclusion of other national movements makes one antisemite), you admitted for the first time that Zionism is not indeed just support for Jewish self determination or statehood, rather it is support for creating a Jewish state in Palestine in particular. This is a very important distinction. And is the reason for the most part I believe most moral persons must principally be be anti Zionists.

This is probably the only time you have been honest here.

and ....voicing that you concur with destruction of said state (of Israel) being a fundamental aim of anti-zionism. Okay, if you propagate that on account of wishing to kick a whole people out, I don't really care what label you find appropriate for yourself by such an attitude. On the nature of those very people I know what label I'll assign though.

Again after rebutting your silly accusations time and time again, you continue to spout new ones just as baseless and empty as the old ones, I guess it is expected when your positions are built on such a weak foundation.

The end of Zionism, does not mean or imply one supports "the expulsion of a whole people out." No where do I even remotely insinuate that.

I guess that frequently heard chants (not of necessity from you) of "kill the Jews" are just a manifestation of many Arabs incapacity to pronounce "Israeli" properly. Since the late 1920s one would have thought there'd been enough time to learn though.

Actually it is unfortunately the result of people deliberately blurring the line between "Zionists" and Jews, openly claiming there is no difference, when these Zionist Jewish people speak and act criminally in the name of all Jewish people, this results in less informed people accepting this connection, despite it being baseless. As for people chanting kill the Jews that is not that common, (perhaps you mean Death to Israel?).

We know of course that being Jewish does not make one a Zionist and opposition to Zionism and the criminality needed to achieve its goals does not make one an anti-Semite.

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

L0neW0lf said:
It is not at all surprising that you are unable to address a single argument that I have presented, failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist,

a claim I never made

"anti Zionism is anti Semitic"

a claim I do make and maintain. As to the gish gallop that follows, I've already stated how I deal with those.

L0neW0lf · Jun 2, 2016

Chagos said:
a claim I never made a claim

It is implied when you claim that opposition to Zionism is equivalent to bigotry against Jews for being Jewish.

I do make and maintain.

Yes we realize this, this is the whole point of the thread in fact. That people like you are trying, and in your case failing miserably, to claim that opposition to Zionism is equivalent to antisemitism. This is the only thing you are able to do however, since it is abundantly clear you are yet to learn arguments that substantiate and defend your position. So you just repeat declarations of what is and what isn't antisemitic as if your unsubstantiated claims have any authority.

As to the gish gallop that follows, I've already stated how I deal with those.

Yes, by running away from the debate, declaring yourself a moderate because you are a "critic" of Israel, while calling people who expose the weak foundation behind your claims, calling you out on them, giving you a chance to support them, antisemitic.

Chagos · Jun 2, 2016

L0neW0lf said:
It is implied

What you consider to be implication is of nor concern to me. You "stated" that I claim Jewishness to be equatable with Zionist and that's a false statement. Period.

The rest is irrelevant in that I've addressed it and have no desire in doing that time and time again.

Apocalypse · Jun 3, 2016

Chagos said:
What you consider to be implication is of nor concern to me.

Oh I've reached that conclusion about that guy ages ago. :lol:
One moment he'll tell you that his side of the argument represents the true values of humanity and freedom and love and human rights and the other moment you'll find him arguing with Cardinal or someone else and justifying the murder of innocents or being furious that miss Lebanon had taken a selfie together with miss Israel calling for a total war on Israelis and the annihilation of the state of Israel.
Probably the greatest waste of time you can find around here, of all the many given options.

Chagos · Jun 3, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Oh I've reached that conclusion about that guy ages ago. :lol:
One moment he'll tell you that his side of the argument represents the true values of humanity and freedom and love and human rights and the other moment you'll find him arguing with Cardinal or someone else and justifying the murder of innocents or being furious that miss Lebanon had taken a selfie together with miss Israel calling for a total war on Israelis and the annihilation of the state of Israel.
Probably the greatest waste of time you can find around here, of all the many given options.

yeah, I respond basically for self-amusement. Not expecting any other sort of value from any of it.

But it's getting boring already :mrgreen:

RAMOSS · Jun 3, 2016

Apocalypse said:
Oh I've reached that conclusion about that guy ages ago. :lol:
One moment he'll tell you that his side of the argument represents the true values of humanity and freedom and love and human rights and the other moment you'll find him arguing with Cardinal or someone else and justifying the murder of innocents or being furious that miss Lebanon had taken a selfie together with miss Israel calling for a total war on Israelis and the annihilation of the state of Israel.
Probably the greatest waste of time you can find around here, of all the many given options.

One of the big red flags is the refusal to say 'Israel' , but instead substitute 'The Jewish State'.

L0neW0lf · Jun 3, 2016

Chagos said:
What you consider to be implication is of nor concern to me. You "stated" that I claim Jewishness to be equatable with Zionist and that's a false statement. Period.

It is hilarious that you have dismissed all of my arguments and claims, all the questions I raised that expose the weakness of your assertions as "claptrap", because as it is obvious to everyone who isn't disingenuous, you are desperately incapable of defending any of your claims and this is the only way you can escape from the debate. But now, you can't help yourself, instead of dismissing the latest post like you did all the previous ones, probably believing you finally have caught me making a mistake you can dispute, you finally decide to respond to it.

what I said in the quote was:

It is not at all surprising that you are unable to address a single argument that I have presented, failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist,

Me saying that you "failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist", is not the same as me claiming that you actually said that. It means exactly that you "failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist"

Perhaps you believe it is implied? in that case :2wave:

What you consider to be implication is of nor concern to me

The rest is irrelevant in that I've addressed it and have no desire in doing that time and time again.

Except of course you haven't and you are not fooling anybody. The extent of your argument, and I am using the term argument very liberally, was that "antiZionism is antisemetic" because it means one supports the end of the Zionist state.

Go learn some actual arguments and come back to me. Even I as a principled anti Zionist can provide a better defence for your claims. This is honestly embarrassing, but it is not surprising to be honest. You did after all begin this discussion by feigning ignorance at the fact that anti-Zionism and support for the creation of Jewish states are not necessarily contradictory. One can not expect much from you after that.

Apocalypse · Jun 3, 2016

RAMOSS said:
One of the big red flags is the refusal to say 'Israel' , but instead substitute 'The Jewish State'.

You forgot The Zionist Entity.

Chagos · Jun 3, 2016

RAMOSS said:
One of the big red flags is the refusal to say 'Israel' , but instead substitute 'The Jewish State'.

Apocalypse said:
You forgot The Zionist Entity.

Heck, one of the ironies is the anti-semites' take that it shouldn't even be called "Jewish State". On account of if being more easy to call "Israel" something that needs to go and not being accosted with accusation of anti-semitism for that demand.

There's this guy here (never mind his irrelevant name) insisting that the declaration of "Jewish State" constitutes an arbitrary declaration that is illegal.

All a matter of angle, eh? :mrgreen:

Chagos · Jun 3, 2016

L0neW0lf said:
It is hilarious that you have dismissed all of my arguments and claims, all the questions I raised that expose the weakness of your assertions as "claptrap", because as it is obvious to everyone who isn't disingenuous, you are desperately incapable of defending any of your claims and this is the only way you can escape from the debate. But now, you can't help yourself, instead of dismissing the latest post like you did all the previous ones, probably believing you finally have caught me making a mistake you can dispute, you finally decide to respond to it.

what I said in the quote was:

Me saying that you "failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist", is not the same as me claiming that you actually said that. It means exactly that you "failed to explain how apparently being Jewish is the same as being a Zionist"

Perhaps you believe it is implied? in that case :2wave:

Except of course you haven't and you are not fooling anybody. The extent of your argument, and I am using the term argument very liberally, was that "antiZionism is antisemetic" because it means one supports the end of the Zionist state.

Go learn some actual arguments and come back to me. Even I as a principled anti Zionist can provide a better defence for your claims. This is honestly embarrassing, but it is not surprising to be honest. You did after all begin this discussion by feigning ignorance at the fact that anti-Zionism and support for the creation of Jewish states are not necessarily contradictory. One can not expect much from you after that.

ah, the beauty offered by cut and paste

Chagos said:
yeah, I respond basically for self-amusement. Not expecting any other sort of value from any of it.

But it's getting boring already :mrgreen:

:2razz:

'New Antisemitism' is Thought Control

L0neW0lf

Chagos

calm

Chagos

calm

L0neW0lf

Chagos

Chagos

calm

L0neW0lf

Chagos

calm

Chagos

Chagos

L0neW0lf

Chagos

L0neW0lf

Chagos

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Chagos

RAMOSS

L0neW0lf

Apocalypse

DEATH TO ANTARCTICA!!!

Chagos

Chagos