Origins of Resurrection Belief

Doc Doom said:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence as the saying goes.

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I don't expect to convince anyone. I'll post convincing evidence to me, people can believe what they want. My testimony is based on spiritual evidence.

Here is a good article by Pratt on how leap years testify of Creator. Do I think it is strong evidence. Yes. Do I think you will think so. Doubt it.

How Leap Years Testify of a Creator

It's nonsensical. He plays with numbers and codes (such as his new improved "correct" interpretation of the debunked Bible code messages) an comes up with the result he wants.

" ...Thirteen days ago the existence of a Uniform Venus Calendar had never even entered my mind. Now it is fully developed enough to present a definitive article about it. The calendar is extremely simple. It has cycles of 585 days each, which never vary. The cycles follow the same exact pattern described in detail in the recent article updating work on the Venus Calendar as illustrated in Figure 1 and listed in Table 1.[1]

The pattern is never adjusted to actually track the planet Venus, which has cycles of 583.92 days in length. Accordingly, it is a rare decade when the Uniform Venus Calendar date describes the actual planet Venus phase in the sky. The interval between its alignments with the Venus Calendar is about 868 years (two alignments every 633,555 days), at which time they align perfectly for about 20 years. However, because the Venus Cycle has Evening Star and Morning Star phases which divide the cycle approximately in half, "opposite-alignments" can also occur in half that period with, for example, the phase "Birth" in the evening corresponding to "Resurrection" in the morning (See Figure 1). That can be thought of as similar to our 24-hour day having two "6 o'clock" positions, one beginning the morning and one the evening. The clock strikes 6 o'clock every 12 hours rather than every 24. Allowing both "alignments" and "opposite-alignments" means the two calendars align about every 434 years.

So of what use is a calendar which almost never lines up with its namesake? That is an excellent question. It is that kind of question (with an implied negative answer) which prevented me from even investigating whether or not God might be using such a calendar. But the evidence that He does use uniform calendars is so strong in the case of the Uniform Enoch and Uniform Jubilee Calendars, that it was worth researching. The result is that there is sufficient evidence from multiple testimonies to indicate that many more important sacred events do occur on a Uniform Venus Calendar than would be expected from random chance. ... "

Uniform Venus Calendar Testifies of God's Organization

laska said:

I don't expect to convince anyone. I'll post convincing evidence to me, people can believe what they want. My testimony is based on spiritual evidence.

Here is a good article by Pratt on how leap years testify of Creator. Do I think it is strong evidence. Yes. Do I think you will think so. Doubt it.

How Leap Years Testify of a Creator

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Seen a lot of people try to prove God in a lot of ways but never have I seen some one try to prove a God created the calendar thats a new one....

Doc Doom said:

Seen a lot of people try to prove God in a lot of ways but never have I seen some one try to prove a God created the calendar thats a new one....

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The words straws, grasping and at come to mind.

RAMOSS said:

The problem with that post, as I pointed out, is that you took out of context quotes from everyplace , but, the one place you didn't bother to try to look at is the actual context in the suffering servant song. That makes that entire argument, well, less that worthless.

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Not a chance. And, I see you couldn't refute it, so there you go!

laska said:

Yes I know the apostles were Jewish. It is after their martyrdoms and the gentiles had control that their was a complete apostasy of the church by the end of the first century. As far as the rest of what you say, it is off topic of this thread and don't feel like having a debate on it. I've debated that before at least a few times on this site. I don't think you understand LDS theology clearly on this and I disagree with your Biblical interpretations. I will just say the LDS interpret the oneness verses of the Godhead as oneness in purpose, and not oneness in entity. It would be very weird for Jesus to be praying to Himself, and calling Himself His own son, or causing his own voice to come from Heaven stating He was well pleased with Himself. Other verses in the Bible clarify that the oneness is not entity.

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Jesus was never praying to himself, but to the Father in Heaven. And Jesus never called himself his own son.

For your edification on what the Bible / New Testament teaches:

Logicman said:

Not a chance. And, I see you couldn't refute it, so there you go!

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THere is nothing there to refute.. since it says absolutely nothing. It does not address the issue, but merely makes claims, using out of context quotes.

It does employ the 'galloping gish' method of debate though.. keep on throwing stuff at the wall, and ignore it when it gets refuted.

Logicman said:

Jesus was never praying to himself, but to the Father in Heaven. And Jesus never called himself his own son.


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You misread what I was saying. I was saying those who believe the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are One God in the sense of being one person makes all those verses weird. Of course Jesus was praying to a separate person, Heavenly Father. The leadership of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, like the New Testament church with Peter, James, and John, has a prophet and his first and second counselor which is the First Presidency of the Church. At the local level the wards each have a bishop who also has a first and second counselor. These are symbolic of the Godhead. Just as these have three men that form one presidency, Heavenly Father, Jesus, and the Holy Ghost form the first presidency of Heaven , three exalted beings(Gods) who are one God. If that is what your image you posted is saying then we agree. Below is an article that explains the LDS position:

"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is a Christian church that is neither Protestant nor Catholic. Rather than evolving from traditions over the centuries, it claims to be a restoration of the original Gospel of Jesus Christ, restored by divine revelation through the prophet Joseph Smith. The process of the Restoration began in 1820 in the state of New York, when a young Joseph went into the woods to pray to God, seeking to know which of many conflicting Christian churches was the right one. In a marvelous vision, Joseph saw a pillar of light descending, and in the light he saw two glorious Beings. One pointed to the other and said, "This is my beloved son. Hear him!" While more was said, right away centuries of confusion about the nature of God was cast away. Unfathomable metaphysical doctrines about the Trinity were displaced with a simple truth: God the Father and His son, Jesus Christ, are two distinct Beings, in whose physical image we are created. There is one God the Father, and His son, Jesus Christ. They are real, tangible, glorious Beings. Obviously, when Christ says, "The Father and I are one," (John 10:30), something other than "one substance" is meant. We believe that their oneness is a oneness or unity of heart, mind, and purpose. The Father can be fully represented by the Son. To worship one is to worship the other. As LDS apostle James E. Talmage put it:

This unity is a type of completeness; the mind of any one member of the Trinity is the mind of the others; seeing as each of them does with the eye of perfection, they see and understand alike. Under any given conditions each would act in the same way, guided by the same principles of unerring justice and equity. The one-ness of the Godhead, to which the scriptures so abundantly testify, implies no mystical union of substance, nor any unnatural and therefore impossible blending of personality. Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are as distinct in their persons and individualities as are any three personages in mortality. Yet their unity of purpose and operation is such as to make their edicts one, and their will the will of God.
(Articles of Faith, p. 37)

Contrast this with the "mainstream" view from the creeds of the fourth and fifth centuries, captured here in this excerpt from the famous Athanasian Creed: Mormon Answers: The Oneness and Unity of God -- Questions about God, the Trinity, and LDS (Mormon) Doctrine

Good stuff in the link above. Hadn't read that link in awhile. Great quotes in it. Strong evidence of a total apostasy of the Church after the apostles leave the scene in the late 1st century. Greek philosophy corrupted the Biblical nature of God. The doctrine became "hellenized". Funny term. The philosophers won out over the prophets and revelation. Without real authorized living prophet, his two counselors, and the quorum of the twelve guiding the Church under direction of the living resurrected Christ, that is what happens.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints has them.

https://www.lds.org/church/leaders/first-presidency?lang=eng

https://www.lds.org/church/leaders/quorum-of-the-twelve-apostles?lang=eng