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Unless a thing is established as impossible...it is possible.

Frank Apisa

Frank Apisa

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It is my contention that unless a thing is established as impossible...it is possible.

Quag and I are arguing this out in another thread...and it is becoming disruptive. It has no place there.

I've started this thread to continue the conversation.

Everyone is invited.
 
possible doesn't mean near as much as probable.
 
clownboy said:
possible doesn't mean near as much as probable.
Click to expand...

In some contexts...probable is more important.

In others...possible is more important.

At least that is my opinion.

I acknowledge that both play a part in philosophical discussions. I also suggest estimates of probability are often gratuitously created right on the spot.
 
Frank Apisa said:
In some contexts...probable is more important.

In others...possible is more important.

At least that is my opinion.

I acknowledge that both play a part in philosophical discussions. I also suggest estimates of probability are often gratuitously created right on the spot.
Click to expand...

Probable, to me, implies an almost inevitability of a predictable occurrence. Inevitability being the level of a proven, predictable, actual occurrence. Possible, OTOH, implies the lack of inevitability yet a likelihood higher than 50% of occurrence. Improbable implies an almost impossibility. Impossibility being the proven level of no occurrence at all.

:twocents:
 
Lots of things are possible today which were thought to be impossible a century ago. So...who knows? Today running a 3-minute mile appears to be impossible. But history shows that it probably is not.

Of course, by the time someone does actually run that fast, no one will remember anymore what the hell a mile is though.
 
calamity said:
Lots of things are possible today which were thought to be impossible a century ago. So...who knows? Today running a 3-minute mile appears to be impossible. But history shows that it probably is not.

Of course, by the time someone does actually run that fast, no one will remember anymore what the hell a mile is though.
Click to expand...

They were almost all possible then as well. However, since the dependencies required to make them an actuality didn't yet exist, they were not probable.

And there lies the rub when having pie in the sky philosophical discussions - for a large part what is being discussed is so far from probability as to render them impossible to achieve in current reality.
 
Frank Apisa said:
It is my contention that unless a thing is established as impossible...it is possible.

Quag and I are arguing this out in another thread...and it is becoming disruptive. It has no place there.

I've started this thread to continue the conversation.

Everyone is invited.
Click to expand...


In a strictly abstract sense I would agree. Many arguments can be built around possible but unlikely events. It's one thing to bet on the likely, its another to exclude the unlikely from the realm of possibility.


Somewhat related: If you accept the assumption that time is infinite, 100% of all possibilities will happen an infinite number of times. It really makes you think twice about where you draw the lines between probable/improbable/impossible.
 
Last edited:
Thank you everyone for coming.

I see Quag has not.

I suspect he did not want to actually deal with this topic...he was more interested in hijacking another thread and getting me to play along...which, to my regret, I did for a while.

Beaudreaux

Impossibility being the proven level of no occurrence at all.
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Precisely. It is impossible to have a square circle...a four sided triangle...a round cube.

Once established as impossible...it cannot be possible. But until established as impossible...it is at least possible.

Right now, for instance, it is impossible for the Carolina Panthers to win Super Bowl 50. Yesterday...prior to the end of the game...IT WAS POSSIBLE.

The fact that today it is impossible (and established as so) does not impact on what WAS yesterday.

(Sorry I had to use that example! But I wanted Peyton Manning to go out a winner.)

RetiredUSN

Could not open that link for some reason.

Calamity

Thanks for the comment. What we think is impossible is different from what we establish as impossible. And we have to keep that in mind.

Clownboy

For sure some things are so improbable as to make them silly to discuss.

But in the case of gods (which is what we were discussing)...the situation is not that.

It is POSSIBLE gods exist...and it is POSSIBLE that there are no gods...

...is totally logical and free from that restraint you mentioned.

Shagg

I understand what you are saying there...and agree.

But my argument with Quag does not fit into that scenario.
 
Frank Apisa said:
It is my contention that unless a thing is established as impossible...it is possible.

Quag and I are arguing this out in another thread...and it is becoming disruptive. It has no place there.

I've started this thread to continue the conversation.

Everyone is invited.
Click to expand...

And how do you know that?? What did you do to eliminate the possibility of it being impossible?
 
RAMOSS said:
And how do you know that?? What did you do to eliminate the possibility of it being impossible?
Click to expand...

I am not interested in "eliminating the possibility of it being impossible."

I am saying that UNTIL IT IS ESTABLISHED AS IMPOSSIBLE...it is possible.

Something can be established as impossible...but until that happens it is possible.

Yesterday at 8:00 in the morning EST...it WAS POSSIBLE that the Panthers would win the Super Bowl being played that afternoon...

...AND it WAS POSSIBLE that the Broncos would win that game.

Today...it no longer is possible for the Panthers to win that game.

But yesterday it was POSSIBLE.

Think about it.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I am not interested in "eliminating the possibility of it being impossible."

I am saying that UNTIL IT IS ESTABLISHED AS IMPOSSIBLE...it is possible.

Something can be established as impossible...but until that happens it is possible.

Yesterday at 8:00 in the morning EST...it WAS POSSIBLE that the Panthers would win the Super Bowl being played that afternoon...

...AND it WAS POSSIBLE that the Broncos would win that game.

Today...it no longer is possible for the Panthers to win that game.

But yesterday it was POSSIBLE.

Think about it.
Click to expand...

So, basically, rather than examine a possibility, you hand wave it away. That is intellectually lazy. It also makes your declaration inaccurate.
 
RAMOSS said:
So, basically, rather than examine a possibility, you hand wave it away. That is intellectually lazy. It also makes your declaration inaccurate.
Click to expand...

I have no idea of what you are talking about here.

My assertion is spot on...not inaccurate.

And nothing I have said make it seem inaccurate.

I most assuredly am not intellectually lazy...which is really a hackneyed expression for a forum of this caliber. I gotta guess you can do better...although I will leave open the POSSIBILITY that cannot.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I have no idea of what you are talking about here.

My assertion is spot on...not inaccurate.

And nothing I have said make it seem inaccurate.

I most assuredly am not intellectually lazy...which is really a hackneyed expression for a forum of this caliber. I gotta guess you can do better...although I will leave open the POSSIBILITY that cannot.
Click to expand...


Well, then why are you refusing to consider the possibility that it something might be impossible? If you have not determined it is impossible for something to be impossible, it is possible that it is impossible.
 
RAMOSS said:
So, basically, rather than examine a possibility, you hand wave it away. That is intellectually lazy. It also makes your declaration inaccurate.
Click to expand...

It's logically consistent though. Yesterday's possibility was established, by 11PM EST, to be impossible.

...at least it was if time travel remains impossible. :)
 
RAMOSS said:
So, basically, rather than examine a possibility, you hand wave it away. That is intellectually lazy. It also makes your declaration inaccurate.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...



If this had a 'Don't like' option I would have clicked it for this post.
 
shrubnose said:
If this had a 'Don't like' option I would have clicked it for this post.
Click to expand...

I bet you can't show what is inaccurate about that assessment though.
 
Frank Apisa said:
It is my contention that unless a thing is established as impossible...it is possible.

Quag and I are arguing this out in another thread...and it is becoming disruptive. It has no place there.

I've started this thread to continue the conversation.

Everyone is invited.
Click to expand...

Reality does not depend on what we've established.

More to what I suspect the real question is, it's foolish to assume that anything hatched out of someone's wildest imagination is possible.
 
Frank Apisa said:
I am not interested in "eliminating the possibility of it being impossible."

I am saying that UNTIL IT IS ESTABLISHED AS IMPOSSIBLE...it is possible.

Something can be established as impossible...but until that happens it is possible.

Yesterday at 8:00 in the morning EST...it WAS POSSIBLE that the Panthers would win the Super Bowl being played that afternoon...

...AND it WAS POSSIBLE that the Broncos would win that game.

Today...it no longer is possible for the Panthers to win that game.

But yesterday it was POSSIBLE.

Think about it.
Click to expand...

It is still a knowledge claim Frank however unintentional you might mean it to be in the sense that you are now saying it, it is still that however, I would like you to define 'established' so that we can be sure you are using it as you intend.
 
RAMOSS said:
Well, then why are you refusing to consider the possibility that it something might be impossible?
Click to expand...

Until it is ESTABLISHED as impossible...it is possible.

It is the nature of the language.

Until you establish something as impossible...IT IS POSSIBLE.

If you have not determined it is impossible for something to be impossible, it is possible that it is impossible.
Click to expand...

The fact that something POSSIBLY IS IMPOSSIBLE...MEANS that it is possible.

You just want to say I am wrong...and you cannot even look at the logic of what is being said, because you are afraid you will see your logical error.

Okay. That happens.
 
Frank Apisa said:
Until it is ESTABLISHED as impossible...it is possible.

It is the nature of the language.

Until you establish something as impossible...IT IS POSSIBLE.



The fact that something POSSIBLY IS IMPOSSIBLE...MEANS that it is possible.

You just want to say I am wrong...and you cannot even look at the logic of what is being said, because you are afraid you will see your logical error.

Okay. That happens.
Click to expand...

You have not established it is not impossible, so it is possible to be impossible. Until you estabilish it is not possible to be impossible, it is possible to be impossible.
 
Frank Apisa said:
It is my contention that unless a thing is established as impossible...it is possible.

Quag and I are arguing this out in another thread...and it is becoming disruptive. It has no place there.

I've started this thread to continue the conversation.

Everyone is invited.
Click to expand...

Can you provide us with an example of something that, by your definition, is impossible...
 
faithful_servant said:
Can you provide us with an example of something that, by your definition, is impossible...
Click to expand...

A four sided triangle; a round cube.

There's two.

Now my challenge to everyone here who disagrees with me:

Please provide an example of something that has not been established as impossible...but that is impossible.

I am saying anything that has not been established as impossible is possible.

You guys can shoot me out of the water by providing just one example of something that has not been established as impossible...but that is impossible.
 
Frank Apisa said:
A four sided triangle; a round cube.

There's two.

Now my challenge to everyone here who disagrees with me:

Please provide an example of something that has not been established as impossible...but that is impossible.

I am saying anything that has not been established as impossible is possible.

You guys can shoot me out of the water by providing just one example of something that has not been established as impossible...but that is impossible.
Click to expand...

True stasis.

Observing a sub atomic particle without influencing it's behavior.

Changing a partisan's mind.
 
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