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We Made It

jet57

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So I got way into DNA a while ago and had a whole work up and found out some great stuff. And something hit me like brick; here’s something for a philosophical point of reflection: as you sit here reading this, you are now concentrating on the fact that your ancestors survived the greatest cataclysms in human history, the whole thing: great wars, pestilence, geographical upsurges of all kinds, and your ancestors managed to snake their way through all that for a long enough period of time to be able to pass the torch of that seed -all the way –up-to-you! We’re survivors. More than that, we’re lucky enough in this day and age to have a complete tracing that tells that entire story. Not just genealogy, but all of the works of the world are available to let us know exactly what happened, when, and how we made it. All the way up to the way we think.

I find that amazing.
 
Yup, and precisely why I find all these "Who gives a **** about my history or my ancestors, I never asked to be brought into this world" types so disgusting.

A couple of billion years worth of evolution and untold human cumulative social effort went into getting you here, and some whiny ungrateful mope who doesn't even want or appreciate the gift they've been given is the end result? Give me a freaking break. :roll:
 
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Yup, and precisely why I find all these "Who gives a **** about my history or my ancestors, I never asked to be brought into this world" types so disgusting.

A couple of billion years worth of evolution and untold human cumulative social effort went into getting you here, and some whiny ungrateful mope who doesn't even want or appreciate the gift they've been given is the end result? Give me a freaking break. :roll:

All that toil and trouble so I can enjoy this ice cream? Gee.
 
I wanna kick my ancestors in the nuts for causing me to read this thread.
 
The upwardly mobile rarely have an interest in history. Or science either for that matter. Every friend is measured in a "what can he do for me" context, politics is a means to an end, and they spend their free time collecting the things that make their world pretty. I think they also tend to be more social creatures.

We can wax philosophical on this, and I have, many times... But one thing's for sure, not everybody has an interest in history.
 
The upwardly mobile rarely have an interest in history. Or science either for that matter. Every friend is measured in a "what can he do for me" context, politics is a means to an end, and they spend their free time collecting the things that make their world pretty. I think they also tend to be more social creatures.

We can wax philosophical on this, and I have, many times... But one thing's for sure, not everybody has an interest in history.

I don't think it's so much an interest in history as much as it is an appreciation for how you got here and the fact that you made it. It sort of reminds of 1000 year old giant sequoias, if they could talk eh?
 
I'll go you one better: something I sometimes think about is the fact that, if we go far enough back, our ancestors were bacteria, algae, and fungi.
 
I don't think it's so much an interest in history as much as it is an appreciation for how you got here and the fact that you made it. It sort of reminds of 1000 year old giant sequoias, if they could talk eh?

I don't know. I don't think the stories of 1000 year old trees would really be all that interesting. They really couldn't see much stuck where they are.
 
I don't think it's so much an interest in history as much as it is an appreciation for how you got here and the fact that you made it. It sort of reminds of 1000 year old giant sequoias, if they could talk eh?

There are various ways of looking at it but to me history is philosophy as an attempt to gain understudying of self. An assessment of the present through examination of the past, it offers prophecy; and so in this way is evolutionary, part and parcel of an evolutionary defense system. And like the quest for knowledge, it is unstoppable; you cannot halt history, you cannot stop history, there will always be those who search for truth.

But as an amateur historian I can also tell you there are innumerable histories, various kinds of history, all of which filter almost imperceptibly through devices, senses, and hermeneutics. (Hopefully in an unbiased manner.)

Sometimes I find it more convenient to just say, "I just like old ****; I find it really interesting." People seem to grasp that, they seem to be ok with that.

Believe me though there are people who have noooo interest at all in history. Cool. It takes all kinds to make a world.

Btw, I haven't had my DNA done. My surname is of Welsh origin, a Welsh patronymic; I assume therefore that we were Welsh. And therefore of the R1B1 sort mentioned in various books such as Oppenheimers, Origins. But I am really curious.
 
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The upwardly mobile rarely have an interest in history. Or science either for that matter. Every friend is measured in a "what can he do for me" context, politics is a means to an end, and they spend their free time collecting the things that make their world pretty. I think they also tend to be more social creatures.

We can wax philosophical on this, and I have, many times... But one thing's for sure, not everybody has an interest in history.

Oooh, the eevil rich! They're not as good as us middle-class folks!

Is there any subject in which you don't base self worth on group identity?
 
Oooh, the eevil rich! They're not as good as us middle-class folks!

Is there any subject in which you don't base self worth on group identity?

Identity is evolutionary; no one long exists without identity. But the rich are every bit as upwardly mobile as anyone else, and in many cases, more so; how do you think they got rich?

The upwardly mobile, for the most part, have no interest in history; call it a personal observation.
 
Identity is evolutionary; no one long exists without identity.

You completely miss the point. I have no problem with group identity, though I would not describe it as evolutionary as much as random chance.

The problem, which you fail to see, is placing self worth in one's group identity. When one feels good about himself merely because one is in a particular group, one is lacking in real self worth and thus esteem. Basing one's personal value on "us vs. them" is a sure sign of an inferior scoundrel.

But the rich are every bit as upwardly mobile as anyone else, and in many cases, more so; how do you think they got rich?

The upwardly mobile, for the most part, have no interest in history; call it a personal observation.

Call it pretending you have special value because you're middle class.
 
You completely miss the point. I have no problem with group identity, though I would not describe it as evolutionary as much as random chance.

The problem, which you fail to see, is placing self worth in one's group identity. When one feels good about himself merely because one is in a particular group, one is lacking in real self worth and thus esteem. Basing one's personal value on "us vs. them" is a sure sign of an inferior scoundrel.



Call it pretending you have special value because you're middle class.

I not only miss the point, I'm not sure what your point is. I said "The upwardly mobile rarely have an interest in history." One could assume from this that I do not consider myself upwardly mobile. And that would probably be true. If that makes me evil or inferior, well then I guess I'm evil and inferior. I'm ok with that. But I never said anything about the rich or the middle class.

Why would you assume I'm middle class? What is middle class? Assets of say, one to ten million? If I had eleven million would that make me rich? So lines blur, I think, and it's really somewhat of an abstract creation, and a matter of personal perception.

Identity, I think, is more about what we are not, then it is about what we are. If everyone in the world were, for example, "Christian," there would be no Christians; if everyone were white, or black,, there would be no white or black. So identity is differentiation. (I am white because I am not black, or red, or yellow.) And no one long survives without the identity that defines self. I'm simplifying; we could write pages on this right?

Try this in a tribal environment and project it onto things like territorialism. What we are not, how we identify, becomes a valid subject.

And I hate to add this but... on the atomic level so is differentiation; without it our world would not exist.
 
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