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Can friends disagree PASSIONATELY ... and remain friends?

G

GoNavy

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Is it possible for grown ups who have been friends for at least 15 years to disagree passionately on a couple issues (2 max) - and still consider themselves friends? Like: I-accept-you-for-who-you-are / and-I-still-enjoy-your-company type friends? Or is that 20th century thinking?

Are disagreements deal-breakers in today's America?

To give you more information - because I can see myself going both ways, if I learned one of my old friends became a member of ISIS, yeah that would be a deal breaker. The scenario involves: (massive can of worms, sorry - liberals) Bruce Jenner. My friend Stewart and I have known each other and hung out for over 15 years. When I came back home, he had moved to Texas. Life happens. Katie is a mutual friend, who is a Berkeley-level feminist. FULL BORE lesbian feminist. She tolerates and loves everyone and everything ... EXCEPT FOR CHRISTIANS who disagree with her !! She will actually take physically assaulting action if she gets worked up enough.

So Stewart and I see eye-to-eye on this whole Jenner can-of-worms. Who are Kylie, Kendall, Brandon, and Sam Jenner's father? What determines sex? Stewart and I would agree - a Y chromosome determines male vs. female. But Bruce / Caitlyn has said in interviews that gender is simply a state-of-mind. Gender Identity Disorder was not official until 1980 in the ... ever-evolving "science" of psychiatry.

Stewart and I do not think that any group, race, ethnicity, or person should have different legal rights, or opportunity, or accessibility. Equality for all. BUT - what we do agree with is - jobs and Universities. If jobs are trying to diversify, and you are a brand new white male employee at YOUR DREAM JOB company without tenure, and you get pushed out for ... whatever reason ... what then? NOW - let's take Harvard and Yale. Do you guys have ANY idea how many more perks and benefits and EXCLUSIVE club membership offers are given to Harvard and Yale grads? And you all know that they are at the top of Ivy-League "diversifiers." So, if I have a HARD-WORKING, military veteran white male ... and I learn that all I have to do is blab with a shrink to identify as female on an admission's application ... that can change the rest of my life.

Katie thought our dialogue was fostering hate and bigotry. Annnnnd ... the 15 years of friendship ... FLUSHED !!!

Can friends disagree passionately - and still move forward as friends? In 2015?
 
Friends can disagree with each other and still remain friends. I disagree with a lot of my friends on politics and we are still friends.
 
Can friends disagree PASSIONATELY ... and remain friends?
Click to expand...

yes, but it can be a challenge. you just have to agree to disagree on some things. but politics tends to generate a deep hate that can even split up families, so you have to work at it, and you can only really control your side of it. if the other person is a flaming partisan nutter who refuses to keep politics and the friendship separate, then there's less of a chance that it will work out.
 
Girlfriend is a democrat. I'm a republican. Yes. A close friend is anti gun and I carry around him. Yes.
 
GoNavy said:
Is it possible for grown ups who have been friends for at least 15 years to disagree passionately on a couple issues (2 max) - and still consider themselves friends? Like: I-accept-you-for-who-you-are / and-I-still-enjoy-your-company type friends? Or is that 20th century thinking?

Are disagreements deal-breakers in today's America?

To give you more information - because I can see myself going both ways, if I learned one of my old friends became a member of ISIS, yeah that would be a deal breaker. The scenario involves: (massive can of worms, sorry - liberals) Bruce Jenner. My friend Stewart and I have known each other and hung out for over 15 years. When I came back home, he had moved to Texas. Life happens. Katie is a mutual friend, who is a Berkeley-level feminist. FULL BORE lesbian feminist. She tolerates and loves everyone and everything ... EXCEPT FOR CHRISTIANS who disagree with her !! She will actually take physically assaulting action if she gets worked up enough.

So Stewart and I see eye-to-eye on this whole Jenner can-of-worms. Who are Kylie, Kendall, Brandon, and Sam Jenner's father? What determines sex? Stewart and I would agree - a Y chromosome determines male vs. female. But Bruce / Caitlyn has said in interviews that gender is simply a state-of-mind. Gender Identity Disorder was not official until 1980 in the ... ever-evolving "science" of psychiatry.

Stewart and I do not think that any group, race, ethnicity, or person should have different legal rights, or opportunity, or accessibility. Equality for all. BUT - what we do agree with is - jobs and Universities. If jobs are trying to diversify, and you are a brand new white male employee at YOUR DREAM JOB company without tenure, and you get pushed out for ... whatever reason ... what then? NOW - let's take Harvard and Yale. Do you guys have ANY idea how many more perks and benefits and EXCLUSIVE club membership offers are given to Harvard and Yale grads? And you all know that they are at the top of Ivy-League "diversifiers." So, if I have a HARD-WORKING, military veteran white male ... and I learn that all I have to do is blab with a shrink to identify as female on an admission's application ... that can change the rest of my life.

Katie thought our dialogue was fostering hate and bigotry. Annnnnd ... the 15 years of friendship ... FLUSHED !!!

Can friends disagree passionately - and still move forward as friends? In 2015?
Click to expand...
Reasoning adults can!
People who stamp their feet and refuse to have a discussion,
when the discussion is not in agreement with them, not so much.
 
If something of a political nature gets in the way of the friendship, then it sounds like it was not that strong of a friendship in the first place. However in the most extreme examples of division where we are talking about terrorism or system of belief extremism, advocates of violence or uprising, extreme religious intolerance, etc. of course those could be friendship deal breakers.

How could it be otherwise?
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Friends can disagree with each other and still remain friends. I disagree with a lot of my friends on politics and we are still friends.
Click to expand...

That is my experience.
 
stonewall50 said:
Girlfriend is a democrat. I'm a republican. Yes. A close friend is anti gun and I carry around him. Yes.
Click to expand...

I have a mixed marriage, one Democrat one Republican. I also have family and friends that are on either side of the political spectrum, from "card-carrying" Marxists, to hard right-wingers. We just don't talk about politics or religion.

Isn't there an old saying about politics and religion... and friends?
 
One should never discus politics with friends or relatives. That's just plain dumb.

The problem is that all of these special interest groups already have equal rights; what they're seeking is extralegal privilege. Eventually we're going to have to pass the Equal Rights Amendment and that will put an end to all this nonsense.
 
betuadollar said:
One should never discus politics with friends or relatives. That's just plain dumb.

The problem is that all of these special interest groups already have equal rights; what they're seeking is extralegal privilege. Eventually we're going to have to pass the Equal Rights Amendment and that will put an end to all this nonsense.
Click to expand...

For the most part - I agree. I mean, I think GROWN-UP, educated, sound-minded adult friends should be able to ASK each other how they FEEL on certain issues. And then if they are not in-line, just disagree, and BURY IT.

I think FB brings out the worst in SOOO many people. That's how this all started. Stewart posted on his wall - "It is OFFICIAL !! Glamour Magazine names Caitlyn Jenner as Woman of the Year. So Men really are better than women at EVERYTHING !! ... including ... being a WOMAN !!"

That's what started the thread, with almost all people agreeing with Stewart ... until Katie chimed in and said the feedback was nothing but hatred and bigotry.
 
Mr. Invisible said:
Friends can disagree with each other and still remain friends. I disagree with a lot of my friends on politics and we are still friends.
Click to expand...

I disagree with you, and now I hate you. :2razz:
 
Absolutely.

But I guess it would depend on how good a friend you're talking about and what, exactly, you disagree on.

I have Army buddies I've been friends with for 25 years and in some cases we're polar opposites on virtually everything but we've got a bond that transcends almost all "issues".
 
GoNavy said:
Is it possible for grown ups who have been friends for at least 15 years to disagree passionately on a couple issues (2 max) - and still consider themselves friends? Like: I-accept-you-for-who-you-are / and-I-still-enjoy-your-company type friends? Or is that 20th century thinking?

Are disagreements deal-breakers in today's America?

To give you more information - because I can see myself going both ways, if I learned one of my old friends became a member of ISIS, yeah that would be a deal breaker. The scenario involves: (massive can of worms, sorry - liberals) Bruce Jenner. My friend Stewart and I have known each other and hung out for over 15 years. When I came back home, he had moved to Texas. Life happens. Katie is a mutual friend, who is a Berkeley-level feminist. FULL BORE lesbian feminist. She tolerates and loves everyone and everything ... EXCEPT FOR CHRISTIANS who disagree with her !! She will actually take physically assaulting action if she gets worked up enough.

So Stewart and I see eye-to-eye on this whole Jenner can-of-worms. Who are Kylie, Kendall, Brandon, and Sam Jenner's father? What determines sex? Stewart and I would agree - a Y chromosome determines male vs. female. But Bruce / Caitlyn has said in interviews that gender is simply a state-of-mind. Gender Identity Disorder was not official until 1980 in the ... ever-evolving "science" of psychiatry.

Stewart and I do not think that any group, race, ethnicity, or person should have different legal rights, or opportunity, or accessibility. Equality for all. BUT - what we do agree with is - jobs and Universities. If jobs are trying to diversify, and you are a brand new white male employee at YOUR DREAM JOB company without tenure, and you get pushed out for ... whatever reason ... what then? NOW - let's take Harvard and Yale. Do you guys have ANY idea how many more perks and benefits and EXCLUSIVE club membership offers are given to Harvard and Yale grads? And you all know that they are at the top of Ivy-League "diversifiers." So, if I have a HARD-WORKING, military veteran white male ... and I learn that all I have to do is blab with a shrink to identify as female on an admission's application ... that can change the rest of my life.

Katie thought our dialogue was fostering hate and bigotry. Annnnnd ... the 15 years of friendship ... FLUSHED !!!

Can friends disagree passionately - and still move forward as friends? In 2015?
Click to expand...

I have found that when it comes to politics or religion they cannot (remain friends and disagree).

So steer clear of those two hot buttons and you should be fine.
 
soot said:
Absolutely.

But I guess it would depend on how good a friend you're talking about and what, exactly, you disagree on.

I have Army buddies I've been friends with for 25 years and in some cases we're polar opposites on virtually everything but we've got a bond that transcends almost all "issues".
Click to expand...

My USMC buddy from 40 years ago gets really peeved whenever I point out that he seems to love and be more proud of his eldest son who also went into the Corps as we did. He usually does not speak to me for weeks and months after that. So even lifetime friendships have their weakness.
 
betuadollar said:
One should never discus politics with friends or relatives. That's just plain dumb.

The problem is that all of these special interest groups already have equal rights; what they're seeking is extralegal privilege. Eventually we're going to have to pass the Equal Rights Amendment and that will put an end to all this nonsense.
Click to expand...

Exactly right.

The rest of my family are all GOP. I am Independent and refused to vote for the knuckleheaded McCain or the robber baron Romney. It really peeved them off.
 
Beaudreaux said:
I have a mixed marriage, one Democrat one Republican. I also have family and friends that are on either side of the political spectrum, from "card-carrying" Marxists, to hard right-wingers. We just don't talk about politics or religion.

Isn't there an old saying about politics and religion... and friends?
Click to expand...

Exactly!

It is a Masonic principle never to discuss politics or religion in lodge or at lodge functions. That's where it comes from.
 
Riveroaks said:
My USMC buddy from 40 years ago gets really peeved whenever I point out that he seems to love and be more proud of his eldest son who also went into the Corps as we did. He usually does not speak to me for weeks and months after that. So even lifetime friendships have their weakness.
Click to expand...

One of my friend's sons went in to the Navy recently.

He's a seamen.
 
soot said:
One of my friend's sons went in to the Navy recently.

He's a seamen.
Click to expand...

Yah it's an old joke.

We called them sailors not seamen when I was in.

Sailor is a term of respect.

We had somebody in our extended family serve in every branch except USCG.

My uncle bombed Japan in WW2.

My dad led a US Army tank platoon in Germany in WW2.

My cousin was in the USN after Korea and before Viet Nam.

Another cousin and I were USMC.

My grandfather was in the Kaiser's infantry and married a French girl after WW1.
 
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Riveroaks said:
I have found that when it comes to politics or religion they cannot (remain friends and disagree).

So steer clear of those two hot buttons and you should be fine.
Click to expand...

So - in other words - Never talk about meaningful-level issues? "Hey dude, cool shoes." "Bro, did you watch the game?" "Hey man, you've been working out?"
 
GoNavy said:
So - in other words - Never talk about meaningful-level issues? "Hey dude, cool shoes." "Bro, did you watch the game?" "Hey man, you've been working out?"
Click to expand...

Well, worst case, a dumazz brother in law like the one I have is going to start running his mouth on a topic that you have a completely opposite view of and that he himself knows nothing about. He just heard it on talk radio.

And if he is a dense boy toy like my sister wanted when she married him then there is no sense even having the conversation.

Family relationships are special and normally amount to your sib's trying to get money out of you for one reason or another.

As far as close personal friends from way back go, I normally approach those situations by simply asking them what their perspective is, and then if it is different from mine I will keep my own views to myself. If they then ask me about my views I will still keep them to myself.

I may then in that case mention the pro's and con's for any given issue without expressing a preference. Even then someone may disagree with your balanced list and say something is not a pro or a con and completely disagree with you.

The Masonic charge not to discuss religion or politics is at least 300 years old and it works. I highly recommend it.

Go Navy beat Army !!!
 
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I guess it depends on the personalities. I am the kind of person, as many here probably are, who ENJOYS debating politics and religion. My closest friends, and the family members with whom I get along the best, also enjoy such debates. We all span the whole political spectrum. We will get into "passionate" debates with each other about things like gun control, abortion, LGBT issues, use of the military, welfare...everything.

We attack each others' arguments, not the individual. We look for common ground. When someone makes a good point we acknowledge it. We do it all with humor and when it is all said and done we will go have a beer or three together.

Some people's skin is too thin for that, though. And I certainly have acquaintances and family members with whom I DON'T have those kinds of conversations because I know they can't handle it.
 
BrewerBob said:
I guess it depends on the personalities. I am the kind of person, as many here probably are, who ENJOYS debating politics and religion. My closest friends, and the family members with whom I get along the best, also enjoy such debates. We all span the whole political spectrum. We will get into "passionate" debates with each other about things like gun control, abortion, LGBT issues, use of the military, welfare...everything.

We attack each others' arguments, not the individual. We look for common ground. When someone makes a good point we acknowledge it. We do it all with humor and when it is all said and done we will go have a beer or three together.

Some people's skin is too thin for that, though. And I certainly have acquaintances and family members with whom I DON'T have those kinds of conversations because I know they can't handle it.
Click to expand...

Well debating politics is what this web site is all about.

And whether a given candidate can take the heat or must get out of the kitchen is the golden question.

Debating religion is pure nonsense.

I urge people to be cautious against all organized religion -- they are all dangerous.

But taking sides makes little sense unless you are trying to highlight a statistic such as Catholics have the longest marriages or Mormons have the lowest crime rates.
 
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