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The Bible is Completely Immoral[W:197]

Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Logicman said:
"The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14

Frank, get the Spirit so you can fathom what's going on in the Bible.
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Ahhhh...you want me to become as deluded as you...so I can start to pretend that Jesus condemned slavery.

I see!
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
The bible condemns slavery of all people when it teaches that all are created equal by God. That is one of the most important concepts in the bible.
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Jesus never condemned slavery.

Nothing in the Bible condemns slavery.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
I think you're unfairly equating slaves like black slavery in early America with the word Slave in the bible, which refers to indentured servants under Mosaic law. Jesus' parable shows that a servant can be freed, even without any form of payment. Unlike oppressed slaves.
Roman slaves had little or no rights, and could be killed by their master but slaves under Mosaic law were protected and not permanently enslaved. Not the same thing, thanks to the rules which are outlined in the bible. I think that's an important distinction.
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At no point does the god of the Bible...or Jesus...condemn slavery.

In fact, the god of the Bible specifically says it is moral to buy, sell, and own slaves.

C'mon, folks...you are supposed to be honest to honor this god.

Just acknowledge the above.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
At no point does the god of the Bible...or Jesus...condemn slavery.

In fact, the god of the Bible specifically says it is moral to buy, sell, and own slaves.

C'mon, folks...you are supposed to be honest to honor this god.

Just acknowledge the above.
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You can't see the forest for the trees, Frank.

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Logicman said:
You don't know when to quit with that nonsense.

Leviticus 19:18 - "..love your neighbor as yourself..."

Matthew 22:36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” 37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

"So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets." - Matthew 7:12

[...]

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28
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You are the only one providing nonsense.

Slaves were not your "neighbors" and were not the "others" being spoken about. They were slaves. Period. You can't refute that.
And Galatians (D'oh!) is Paul speaking of what a baptized person is to the Church. Not what they are in real life to their owners. And it certainly doesn't prohibit it, especially as there are (obviously approved of) rules to follow in their treatment.


Logicman said:
From Matthew 12:
46 While Jesus was still talking to the crowd, his mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to him. 47 Someone told him, “Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to you.”
48 He replied to him, “Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?” 49 Pointing to his disciples, he said, “Here are my mother and my brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother.”
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And again, as you were already told.

All this says is be the best slave as you were told to be (which is the will of his father) and you will be his brother.

To think this invalidates slavery is absurdity at it's finest. ​

All you have provided to this discussion is irrelevant nonsense.

The Bible condones slavery and even tells you how to treat them. Period. Nothing you can say changes that.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Logicman said:
You can't see the forest for the trees, Frank.
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You seem unable to even see the trees, Logicman. If you did, long ago you would have ackowledged that Jesus NEVER condemned slavery...NOT IN ANY WAY.

Doing so would not be saying that the Bible is completely immoral!

(And the Bible is NOT completely immoral.)

The person without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God but considers them foolishness, and cannot understand them because they are spiritually discerned." - 1 Corinthians 2:14
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People "with the Spirit" delude themselves...and want everyone else to be "with the Spirit" so that their delusions are not so apparent.



Your god wants you to be ethical, Logicman...wants you to be honest.

Honor your god by acknowledging the obvious...that Jesus NEVER condemned slavery.

You will feel better after you do.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Logicman said:
Horse manure.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

You're busted (again). LOL!
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How does that condemn slavery?
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

That is nonsense. Those groups of people exist and existed.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
You seem unable to even see the trees, Logicman. If you did, long ago you would have ackowledged that Jesus NEVER condemned slavery...NOT IN ANY WAY.

Doing so would not be saying that the Bible is completely immoral!

(And the Bible is NOT completely immoral.)



People "with the Spirit" delude themselves...and want everyone else to be "with the Spirit" so that their delusions are not so apparent.



Your god wants you to be ethical, Logicman...wants you to be honest.

Honor your god by acknowledging the obvious...that Jesus NEVER condemned slavery.

You will feel better after you do.
Click to expand...

http://www.debatepolitics.com/philo...al-w-197-a-post1065068989.html#post1065068989
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
At no point does the god of the Bible...or Jesus...condemn slavery.

In fact, the god of the Bible specifically says it is moral to buy, sell, and own slaves.

C'mon, folks...you are supposed to be honest to honor this god.

Just acknowledge the above.
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"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death. "
Exodus 21.16

Waiting for some honesty on your part now, Frank.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death. "
Exodus 21.16

Waiting for some honesty on your part now, Frank.
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Ahhh...so you are saying that banning kidnapping...is condemnation of slavery...even though the god specifically says you can buy, sell, and own slaves.

C'mon, Manny.

If you are looking for honesty at all...engage in some.

I am being honest:

At no point does the god of the Bible...or Jesus...condemn slavery.


Let's here some honesty from you on that.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
Ahhh...so you are saying that banning kidnapping...is condemnation of slavery...even though the god specifically says you can buy, sell, and own slaves.

C'mon, Manny.

If you are looking for honesty at all...engage in some.

I am being honest:

At no point does the god of the Bible...or Jesus...condemn slavery.


Let's here some honesty from you on that.
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I see. So your answer is kidnapping and selling people is not slavery eh?
That is disappointing Frank. Very disappointing.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
I see. So your answer is kidnapping and selling people is not slavery eh?
That is disappointing Frank. Very disappointing.
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It could be slavery.

Where are the words, Manny: Slavery is immoral?

They are not there.

So "kidnapping" is a crime. But it does not say that slavery is immoral...or that the god of the Bible is condemning it.

Here is what the god said to Moses:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen."

Leviticus 25:44ff

I understand that is disappointing, Manny.

Very disappointing!
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
It could be slavery.

Where are the words, Manny: Slavery is immoral?

They are not there.

So "kidnapping" is a crime. But it does not say that slavery is immoral...or that the god of the Bible is condemning it.

Here is what the god said to Moses:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen."

Leviticus 25:44ff

I understand that is disappointing, Manny.

Very disappointing!
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If anything is disappointing it is that you only think it "could" be... you don't want make a decision.
Well at least there's a little hope since you said "could".
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
It could be slavery.

Where are the words, Manny: Slavery is immoral?

They are not there.

So "kidnapping" is a crime. But it does not say that slavery is immoral...or that the god of the Bible is condemning it.

Here is what the god said to Moses:

"Slaves, male and female, you may indeed possess, provided you BUY them from among the neighboring nations. You may also BUY them from among the aliens who reside with you and from their children who are born and reared in your land. Such slaves YOU MAY OWN AS CHATTELS, and leave to your sons as their hereditary property, MAKING THEM PERPETUAL SLAVES. But you shall not lord it harshly over any of the Israelites, your kinsmen."

Leviticus 25:44ff

I understand that is disappointing, Manny.

Very disappointing!
Click to expand...

:applaud ................
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
If anything is disappointing it is that you only think it "could" be... you don't want make a decision.
Well at least there's a little hope since you said "could".
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Deal with the fact that nowhere in the Bible does the god of the Bible nor Jesus condemn slavery...

...and at several points, the god specifically says there is nothing wrong with slavery at all.

Really!
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Thanks, RM!
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Logicman said:
Horse manure.

"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." - Galatians 3:28

You're busted (again). LOL!
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Metaphorically speaking of course. Its true we are all humans nothing divides us from being that. But some humans are slaves. Some humans are owned by other people like a tool in a shed. You havent moved away from the fact that the bible does acknowledge slavery and lays out rules of engagement whether the slave is willing to participate or not.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Frank Apisa said:
Deal with the fact that nowhere in the Bible does the god of the Bible nor Jesus condemn slavery...

...and at several points, the god specifically says there is nothing wrong with slavery at all.

Really!
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I've tried to show you examples. Anyone kidnapped and sold, or kidnapped and kept, is a slave. In the bible, God himself said that people who do that to others should be killed. Those who read and study the bible, in its entirety (not cut paste snippets), priests, bible scholars, popes, agree this is exactly what it means. Since you won't accept that, it's time to move on.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death. "
Exodus 21.16

Waiting for some honesty on your part now, Frank.
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That is not condemning slavery. That is condemning kidnapping people for use of slaves. It says nothing about buying one or owning one, but rather one method of obtaining one.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Logicman said:
Here's one for you:

"Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son." - 1 John 2:22
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Enter the opinion of the confused.
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

Manny said:
"He who kidnaps a man, whether he sells him or he is found in his possession, shall surely be put to death. "
Exodus 21.16

Waiting for some honesty on your part now, Frank.
Click to expand...

What? about kidnapping?
 
Re: The Bible is Completely Immoral

RAMOSS said:
That is not condemning slavery. That is condemning kidnapping people for use of slaves. It says nothing about buying one or owning one, but rather one method of obtaining one.
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I think the distinction is in whether the person indentures themselves willingly, or is kidnapped and sold. The word slave is used to describe both, and that is where much of the confusion lies for our modern day interpretation.
 
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